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  #76  
Old 03-20-2017, 12:15 PM
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Curious Nic, what do you consider to be a varmint off the bat?
A fox in your hen house.. A coon stealing your eggs. A squirrel in your attic.. That would be my explanation.
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  #77  
Old 03-20-2017, 12:22 PM
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Curious Nic, what do you consider to be a varmint off the bat?


A varmint is any critter that makes a nuisance of itself and starts causing problems. A few examples...

A rabbit in the fencerow is a critter. When it gets in the garden and starts cutting your new vegetables off, then it becomes a varmint.

A possum in a persimmon tree is a critter. When it gets into your chicken coop and causes destruction, it becomes a varmint.

When deer are in the woods feeding on acorns and wild mast, it is a critter. When it gets in your pea patch and eats them up, it becomes a varmint.

When a crow...never mind, a crow is always a varmint.

As for the brush wolves here in Georgia and the South, of course they should be controlled, just as everything out there such as coons and other furbearers-predators need to be. But not wiped out. Predators serve a very valuable purpose in Nature. As I`ve stated before, I`m convinced what we have here is more red wolf than coyote, and therefore they are native. Personally, I hope they do have some coyote in them for no other reason than the fact that coyotes seem more "man resistant" than red or gray wolves. Since the Europeans first set foot on this continent, they have waged war with predators, and have dealt serious blows to red and gray wolves, black bears, panthers-cougars. But not the coyote, it thrives in the face of diversity, in spite of everything thrown at it. Coyotes and palmetto bugs will be the only thing left alive after a nuclear holocaust, and they can survive off each other if need be.

Now, let the name calling begin, because I`m sure a lot of folks want to label me a bleeding heart coyote loving liberal. Those that know me know I`m not.
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  #78  
Old 03-20-2017, 12:28 PM
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A varmint is any critter that makes a nuisance of itself and starts causing problems. A few examples...

A rabbit in the fencerow is a critter. When it gets in the garden and starts cutting your new vegetables off, then it becomes a varmint.

A possum in a persimmon tree is a critter. When it gets into your chicken coop and causes destruction, it becomes a varmint.

When deer are in the woods feeding on acorns and wild mast, it is a critter. When it gets in your pea patch and eats them up, it becomes a varmint.

When a crow...never mind, a crow is always a varmint.

As for the brush wolves here in Georgia and the South, of course they should be controlled, just as everything out there such as coons and other furbearers-predators need to be. But not wiped out. Predators serve a very valuable purpose in Nature. As I`ve stated before, I`m convinced what we have here is more red wolf than coyote, and therefore they are native. Personally, I hope they do have some coyote in them for no other reason than the fact that coyotes seem more "man resistant" than red or gray wolves. Since the Europeans first set foot on this continent, they have waged war with predators, and have dealt serious blows to red and gray wolves, black bears, panthers-cougars. But not the coyote, it thrives in the face of diversity, in spite of everything thrown at it. Coyotes and palmetto bugs will be the only thing left alive after a nuclear holocaust, and they can survive off each other if need be.


I disagree... Crows will also be left behind when the Nuclear Holocaust happens..
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  #79  
Old 03-20-2017, 12:28 PM
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I disagree... Crows will also be left behind when the Nuclear Holocaust happens..


You have a strong point there.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Browning Slayer View Post
Nope, and you can throw bears on to the list of animals that can be targeted.
OK, see, I was solidly on the side of Nic & NCHB, then you go & throw in a perfectly valid reason for randomly poisoning the wildlife...If it will get rid of the bears, I am all for it. Bears are clearly in the mostly varmit, rarely critter category. Gonna miss all the possums & foxes, but won't shed a tear for the coons, either.

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Originally Posted by Silver Britches View Post
In order to have a major impact on those coyotes, wouldn't they still need to cover a lot of ground, placing enough of these cyanide traps out there?
What he means is, leg-hold traps have to be checked daily, but these cyanide pop-ups are set & forget, then you make rounds when convenient & re-set any that are tripped.

At a minimum, they ought to have to keep a record of all the non-target wildlife found dead next to a tripped one; but of all the .gov agencies, USDA-APHIS is the least concerned with anything other than the protection of commercial Ag. Wildlife protection is not even on their radar (which is why they don't oppose deer farming, but that's a whole 'nother soap box).
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:36 PM
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...

Now, let the name calling begin, because I`m sure a lot of folks want to label me a bleeding heart coyote loving liberal. Those that know me know I`m not.
You mean not a Liberal, or all them other thangs...

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  #82  
Old 03-20-2017, 07:22 PM
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You mean not a Liberal, or all them other thangs...



Something like that.
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  #83  
Old 03-20-2017, 07:48 PM
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There are tons of things that unintentionally kill wildlife. Windmills, boats, power plants, and so on kill millions upon millions of animals every year. Millions of birds and marine animals die every year due to plastic trash in the water. Habitat loss posses a bigger threat to more species of animals than any poison every could. Over half of many species, like doves, die off every year due to various reasons, most not even involving humans. I just don't get the big deal people have with them using M-44s. Of all of the problems that wildlife has out there, M-44 as a predator control method isn't any where near the top, I can assure you of that.
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  #84  
Old 03-20-2017, 10:14 PM
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I bet there are some old timers here that can tell stories about "Timic" Not sure if that is the right spelling or not, it was used to kill cut worms in crops I'm told. I am told it would kill three times. Target, scavenger, and buzzard. Our military used to have a large supply of chemical weapons.
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  #85  
Old 03-20-2017, 11:37 PM
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That's a quarter of a mile away up a ridge according to the article. The rancher may be miles away and that is just part of his range and he has no access to it through those homes that were at the foothills of that ridge. Like I have been saying, you don't know the whole story and you have no idea the losses this rancher must have been going through if the government was willing to put out poison to try and control a problem that all of us across this nation are currently experiencing with coyotes. Truth be told you all are protesting this are more than likely in the minority as I think if hunters could get their hands on this they would be all over it trying to get rid of the coyotes on their hunting property.
Would you be OK if someone bolted a loaded shotgun to a tree and tied a 3 ft trip string to the trigger 500 yds from your house and didn't tell you? I mean you gotta be right on it for you to get hurt, right? how would you feel if you found it by it shooting you? your wife? or your son, daughter?

Any hunter out there could rig up the exact same thing with about $5 in materials and put it out... if people really did think like you think they do these things would be everywhere.
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  #86  
Old 03-21-2017, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by across the river View Post
There are tons of things that unintentionally kill wildlife. Windmills, boats, power plants, and so on kill millions upon millions of animals every year. Millions of birds and marine animals die every year due to plastic trash in the water. Habitat loss posses a bigger threat to more species of animals than any poison every could. Over half of many species, like doves, die off every year due to various reasons, most not even involving humans. I just don't get the big deal people have with them using M-44s. Of all of the problems that wildlife has out there, M-44 as a predator control method isn't any where near the top, I can assure you of that.
What if it was your dog that died. Or your child that was hurt. What if it was your child that lost an eye due to a M-44. What if you were the one that stepped on it by accident and was exposed to the cyanide and became deathly ill. What if you were the guy that stepped on a M-44 and was struck on the left side and died.

Those are just a few incidents caused by these traps. Poisoning the woods is not the answer. Set and forget traps are not the answer.

Having a bunch of good ol Georgia boys running around in the woods with cyanide is not the answer. There is a reason these are hard to get.
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  #87  
Old 03-21-2017, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by chase870 View Post
I bet there are some old timers here that can tell stories about "Timic" Not sure if that is the right spelling or not, it was used to kill cut worms in crops I'm told. I am told it would kill three times. Target, scavenger, and buzzard. Our military used to have a large supply of chemical weapons.


Timic is a dangerous and deadly thing. It don`t play.
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  #88  
Old 03-21-2017, 08:40 AM
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Would you be OK if someone bolted a loaded shotgun to a tree and tied a 3 ft trip string to the trigger 500 yds from your house and didn't tell you? I mean you gotta be right on it for you to get hurt, right? how would you feel if you found it by it shooting you? your wife? or your son, daughter?

Any hunter out there could rig up the exact same thing with about $5 in materials and put it out... if people really did think like you think they do these things would be everywhere.
Give me a break....night and days difference between what you just stated and an M-44. Poison is being thrown around the woods all the time that have an effect on more then what there meant for. From the chemicals sprayed on farmlands to the Roundup that we all use in the woods, which they are now saying causes cancer, to the rat bait that we use at our camps. All these can have an effect on wildlife and our kids. I see parents all the time let their kids run through the woods without snake boots, are you going to want the government to kill all poisonous snakes because a parent doesn't know all the dangers that they are letting their kid get into? Overall and through the years the M-44 has shown that it is effective and safe with very few issues with people and pets. Again, all I am saying is I don't judge those I don't know based on a story from the media. Was the kid trespassing? Was it public or private land? You don't know. The M-44 has been a tried and true form of eradication out there for years, now a dog dies and everyone gets up and arms over it.
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  #89  
Old 03-21-2017, 11:20 AM
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People who raise sheep here keep them fenced in and keep a big Pyrenees dog in the pasture. And they do it on their own land, not on welfare public-land deals where everybody has a right to access it.

And if you don't understand what's wrong with indiscriminately poisoning wildlife, then you just don't get it and never will. I'm not Nic, but I'd say we share a similar opinion on poisoning coyotes along with anything else that comes along.
I have that a donkey works really well for keeping dogs and coyotes away from sheep and goats.

Momma cows protect their calves pretty well too in my experience.
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:18 PM
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Timic is a dangerous and deadly thing. It don`t play.
Timic killed my neighbor who was using it to poison house cats in our neighborhood because they left cat prints on his wifes car. Took him bout six weeks to die. The wife wasn't worth it either.....
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  #91  
Old 03-21-2017, 12:32 PM
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Give me a break....night and days difference between what you just stated and an M-44. Poison is being thrown around the woods all the time that have an effect on more then what there meant for. From the chemicals sprayed on farmlands to the Roundup that we all use in the woods, which they are now saying causes cancer, to the rat bait that we use at our camps. All these can have an effect on wildlife and our kids. I see parents all the time let their kids run through the woods without snake boots, are you going to want the government to kill all poisonous snakes because a parent doesn't know all the dangers that they are letting their kid get into? Overall and through the years the M-44 has shown that it is effective and safe with very few issues with people and pets. Again, all I am saying is I don't judge those I don't know based on a story from the media. Was the kid trespassing? Was it public or private land? You don't know. The M-44 has been a tried and true form of eradication out there for years, now a dog dies and everyone gets up and arms over it.
What qualifies as "very few issues"?

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In 1997 alone, 1,998 animals were killed accidentally by M-44s, including a bear, bobcats, raccoons and 237 dogs.
Quote:
The traps got some public attention in 1994, when Amanda Woods' dog was killed by an M-44 on her Harrison, Ore., ranch. Woods tried to resuscitate her dog and suffered secondary poisoning from the sodium cyanide.
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Two M-44 accidents in recent months have brought the issue back into the public eye. In December, retired Phoenix physician Bill Bunting was quail hunting on state land in southeastern New Mexico when his two German shorthair dogs were poisoned.
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Then in early January, an M-44 killed a German shepherd in Estacada, Ore., a suburb of Portland. Wildlife Services had planted eight of the devices in a Christmas tree farm frequented by local children.

And the list goes on.. I wonder, if any of this happened to you or your family, would you feel different?

Poison does not belong in the woods. If a rancher has a problem with wild animals roaming BLM land, buy your own land, fence it in and manage your herd that way.

Folks that say it's ok for poisoning the woods with cyanide or warfarin to control animals will never get it. All you guys care about are your deer and turkey population's.
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  #92  
Old 03-21-2017, 12:33 PM
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That was a pretty disturbing article.

What I got from reading it was A government idiot put a death trap on public land that is used for recreation 500 yards from a subdivision.

They didn't even have the sense to put up warning signs.

No defense for that.

I would rather see wild predators than welfare sheep and welfare cattle on public land myself.
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  #93  
Old 03-21-2017, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Browning Slayer View Post
What qualifies as "very few issues"?










And the list goes on.. I wonder, if any of this happened to you or your family, would you feel different?

Poison does not belong in the woods. If a rancher has a problem with wild animals roaming BLM land, buy your own land, fence it in and manage your herd that way.

Folks that say it's ok for poisoning the woods with cyanide or warfarin to control animals will never get it. All you guys care about are your deer and turkey population's.
But, but......coyotes are the debbil and must all be killed......
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:38 PM
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But, but......coyotes are the debbil and must all be killed......
And the ones that scream that the most are the ones that don't lift one finger to run a trap line. They shoot one a year (maybe) while deer hunting and complain in the offseason.

I'm getting ready to fire up my spring time trapping for coyotes.
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  #95  
Old 03-21-2017, 01:58 PM
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Give me a break....night and days difference between what you just stated and an M-44. Poison is being thrown around the woods all the time that have an effect on more then what there meant for. From the chemicals sprayed on farmlands to the Roundup that we all use in the woods, which they are now saying causes cancer, to the rat bait that we use at our camps. All these can have an effect on wildlife and our kids. I see parents all the time let their kids run through the woods without snake boots, are you going to want the government to kill all poisonous snakes because a parent doesn't know all the dangers that they are letting their kid get into? Overall and through the years the M-44 has shown that it is effective and safe with very few issues with people and pets. Again, all I am saying is I don't judge those I don't know based on a story from the media. Was the kid trespassing? Was it public or private land? You don't know. The M-44 has been a tried and true form of eradication out there for years, now a dog dies and everyone gets up and arms over it.
Honestly I could care less if he was trespassing... that should be a non issue.

The dog dying is bad, but to be honest the cyanide the kid was exposed to is a lot worse, you do realize even though he survived there are long term effects to cyanide poisoning right?

I really don't get your way of thinking... you're basically saying "we have all these poisons so instead of getting rid of them lets add more!"
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:23 PM
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Honestly I could care less if he was trespassing... that should be a non issue.

The dog dying is bad, but to be honest the cyanide the kid was exposed to is a lot worse, you do realize even though he survived there are long term effects to cyanide poisoning right?

I really don't get your way of thinking... you're basically saying "we have all these poisons so instead of getting rid of them lets add more!"
How in the world does trespassing not play into this??? If I have a loaded gun in my house and a kid breaks in and shoots himself that's my fault???? Kids, especially young children have a way better chance of finding some rat bait and chewing on that then ever finding a M-44. Funny how something that has been going on for decades suddenly gets you all riled up now....just because you let the media get into your head.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:25 PM
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Funny how something that has been going on for decades suddenly gets you all riled up now....just because you let the media get into your head.
Was their ever a thread about it before?
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:45 PM
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How in the world does trespassing not play into this??? If I have a loaded gun in my house and a kid breaks in and shoots himself that's my fault???? Kids, especially young children have a way better chance of finding some rat bait and chewing on that then ever finding a M-44. Funny how something that has been going on for decades suddenly gets you all riled up now....just because you let the media get into your head.


For the record, I have always been against the use of poison in our woods. My dislike for it didn`t start when I saw this thread.
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:01 PM
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How in the world does trespassing not play into this??? If I have a loaded gun in my house and a kid breaks in and shoots himself that's my fault???? Kids, especially young children have a way better chance of finding some rat bait and chewing on that then ever finding a M-44. Funny how something that has been going on for decades suddenly gets you all riled up now....just because you let the media get into your head.
Where in the article does it say the boy was trespassing?
Quote:
Argyle said the device was in a patchwork area of private and public land and is believed to have been placed on U.S. Bureau of Land Management land. Argyle said the area is frequented by hikers, bikers and ATV riders. He said the area also has some sheep grazing.
Also, what if someone were to get themselves turned around out there, and unknowingly be trespassing on lands where these dangerous devices are placed? That can happen too, you know.

And putting rat poison out in your home is in a more easily controlled environment. A lot different than placing something out in the wild where there is no telling what all, or who all, may come into contact with it.

Also, what's wrong with them getting a bunch of guys out there and shooting them? At least they'd know what they were killing then. Would probably kill more coyotes that way as well.
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Old 03-22-2017, 06:31 AM
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How in the world does trespassing not play into this??? If I have a loaded gun in my house and a kid breaks in and shoots himself that's my fault???? Kids, especially young children have a way better chance of finding some rat bait and chewing on that then ever finding a M-44. Funny how something that has been going on for decades suddenly gets you all riled up now....just because you let the media get into your head.
I have been opposed to poisoning wildlife for about the last 49 and a half years. It didn't start after reading that article.
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