I would like your answers to this if you are so inclined....

Huntinfool

Senior Member


No....but the "miracles" he was said to have performed (according to that link) ain't NOTHIN' compared to what they ascribed to Jesus.

That was my point. At least this guy's followers had the sense to ascribe something that MIGHT be believable. Jesus' followers just went ahead and went right over the top, didn't they? I guess they figured, "Heck, while we're makin' this crap up....go big or go home, right?"

In any case, JM asked that this not turn into a debate. So I'll leave that discussion for another day.
 
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atlashunter

Senior Member
Some of the reported miracles included levitation (both indoors and outdoors), bilocation, physical disappearances, changing granite into sugar candy, changing water into another drink, changing water into gasoline, producing objects on demand, changing the color of his gown while wearing it, multiplying food, healing acute and chronic diseases, appearing in visions and dreams, making different fruits appear on any tree hanging from actual stems, controlling the weather, physically transforming into various deities and physically emitting brilliant light.

Hmmm... I don't know HF. These sound pretty impressive to me. Believable? Not really but YMMV. Same for Mohammed's night time ride on a flying horse to Jerusalem.

And I'm not sure I get the point you are making. The more outlandish the miracle claim people are convinced of the more likely it is to be true?
 

Huntinfool

Senior Member
The materializations of vibhuti (holy ash) and other small objects such as rings, necklaces and watches by Sathya Sai Baba were a source of both fame and controversy

I was talking about these in the first paragraph. Not super impressive and most dismissed it as slight of hand.

Definitely did not see that list when I scanned it the first time. They definitely went all out.
 

Asath

Senior Member
And so, to return to the OP – what, exactly, are your thoughts on the Jesus figure?

Or, to put it more succinctly, and avoid the endless dithering – what can be demonstrated to be true, and what can be demonstrated to be false concerning the life of this man?

The OP did not necessarily ask the Believers to begin the usual litany of excuses – it was pretty specific – “For those of you who do not believe in the God of the bible . . . . ,” it began . . .

Now, unless I am unable to connect a thought to a specific statement, I failed to see the invitation to pile on yet another hundred pages of the Believers doctrines. In fact, I rather think that such a thing was specifically asked to be left at the door.

What was asked was the thoughts and opinions of the NON-Believers.

Just an observation. Asking for respect of one’s own thought often requires at least listening to the question . . .
 

Madman

Senior Member
Its exactly how one of my heros saw him. Thomas Jefferson, he even wrote his own bible void of all the miracles and the resurrection.

That is great!! Thomas Jefferson is one of my heros also.

Have you studied much about him?

John F. Kennedy once made the statement during a White House dinner attended by Nobel Prize winners:

"I think this is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered together at the White House, with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone. Someone once said that Thomas Jefferson was a gentleman of 32 who could calculate an eclipse, survey an estate, tie an artery, try a cause, break a horse, and dance the minuet."

How exactly do you think Thomas Jefferson saw Christ?

I know what he said about Christ in one of his letters:

“The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus Himself are within the comprehension of a child: but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them, and for obvious reason: that nonsense can never be explained.”

By the way he didn't "write his own Bible" you need to research that statement a little deeper.

In retrospect I believe your hero worship has been placed on a revisionist history of Thomas Jefferson, mine on the historical.
 
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G20

Banned
I'm not an anti-believer, nor am I a full-believer. I am one who thinks for myself, too much about this kind of stuff to believe anyone at all, but I do enjoy reading about different viewpoints, as food for yet more thought.

What really explains how I see things in about the most succinct way possible is: "If there were not a (Jesus, God...., etc.), would mankind not create one"?

I think we ALL know the answer to that question.
 

TheBishop

Senior Member
That is great!! Thomas Jefferson is one of my heros also.

Have you studied much about him?

John F. Kennedy once made the statement during a White House dinner attended by Nobel Prize winners:

"I think this is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered together at the White House, with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone. Someone once said that Thomas Jefferson was a gentleman of 32 who could calculate an eclipse, survey an estate, tie an artery, try a cause, break a horse, and dance the minuet."

How exactly do you think Thomas Jefferson saw Christ?

I know what he said about Christ in one of his letters:

“The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus Himself are within the comprehension of a child: but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them, and for obvious reason: that nonsense can never be explained.”

By the way he didn't "write his own Bible" you need to research that statement a little deeper.

In retrospect I believe your hero worship has been placed on a revisionist history of Thomas Jefferson, mine on the historical.

Auctually he did "Author" his own bible. Writing it was probably the wrong term becuase most of it was a cut and paste job.

Jefferson was a self proclaimed enlightened diest. He did not hold religious organizations in high esteem. He believed that belief (like madison) was personal. Based on all I have read most christians today would not consider him a christian. He believed in apathetic god who did not get invovled with the affairs of men.

In retrospect I think you views on our fore fathers is based on wishful thinking that this country was founded on religous principals, and it was not.
 
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