Been a while

ambush80 · Jul 28, 2017

C'mon Man!!!! REALLY believe!!!!

atlashunter · Jul 28, 2017

hobbs27 said:
I don't think you should accuse anyone of being a liar when you don't even understand the premise.

First.. Those that believe in Jesus would do the works Jesus had done... Secondly He said to His disciples.. I say to you... So Jesus is telling them, of you that believe, you also shall do the works I have done, and they did!

Also... Whatever they (His disciples) asked in His name, He did for them.

You must consider audience relevance, because what we are reading here was a conversation between Christ and His disciples.. Not Christ to the whole world. There was a time in which Christ went away to prepare a place. In that time He sent a comforter, and He gave spiritual gifts, we read all about it in Acts, but that time has expired and is no longer needed.

Here we go again with "what he meant to say". Let's stick with the actual words in black and white, not your alteration of them. It doesn't say, "you who believe in me". Nor does it say, "only those of you here who believe in me". It says "he who believes in me". According to Acts the performing of miracles wasn't restricted to just the 12 disciples. I suppose you follow the same method of interpretation of Mark 16 verses 15-18 since he was speaking to the apostles?

welderguy · Jul 28, 2017

ambush80 said:
C'mon Man!!!! REALLY believe!!!!

So which is it? yes, no , or not right now?
It can't be all three.

atlashunter · Jul 28, 2017

welderguy said:
Has it not occurred to you that the asking is part of His plan also?

Do you not think these things through before you regurgitate your nonsense?

(Ha, been wanting to use that word "regurgitate" for a while)

Funny that his plan is statistically indistinguishable from what we would expect with no divine intervention at all.

atlashunter · Jul 28, 2017

welderguy said:
So which is it? yes, no , or not right now?
It can't be all three.

Oh ye of little faith! You don't get to know the answer beforehand! Just wait and see what happens and then you will know the answer.

bullethead · Jul 28, 2017

welderguy said:
Has it not occurred to you that the asking is part of His plan also?

Do you not think these things through before you regurgitate your nonsense?

(Ha, been wanting to use that word "regurgitate" for a while)

Still waiting on you...

welderguy · Jul 28, 2017

atlashunter said:
Oh ye of little faith! You don't get to know the answer beforehand! Just wait and see what happens and then you will know the answer.

pssst...(I never prayed anything...I was foolin)

So there is no answer! HA! Gotcha!

Phonies!!!!

atlashunter · Jul 28, 2017

welderguy said:
pssst...(I never prayed anything...I was foolin)

So there is no answer! HA! Gotcha!

Phonies!!!!

Pssst... it doesn't matter whether you pray or not. That's the whole point.

hobbs27 · Jul 28, 2017

atlashunter said:
Here we go again with "what he meant to say". Let's stick with the actual words in black and white, not your alteration of them. It doesn't say, "you who believe in me". Nor does it say, "only those of you here who believe in me". It says "he who believes in me". According to Acts the performing of miracles wasn't restricted to just the 12 disciples. I suppose you follow the same method of interpretation of Mark 16 verses 15-18 since he was speaking to the apostles?

Is it a conversation between Christ and His disciples?

At anytime does He say this is for the whole world to know and extends into infinity?

Did He not limit it to ( you), as in those He was speaking to?

Sure others received the gift in Acts, but the church was in its infancy and has since matured, leaving those childish things behind.

1Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things.

atlashunter · Jul 28, 2017

hobbs27 said:
Is it a conversation between Christ and His disciples?

At anytime does He say this is for the whole world to know and extends into infinity?

Did He not limit it to ( you), as in those He was speaking to?

Sure others received the gift in Acts, but the church was in its infancy and has since matured, leaving those childish things behind.

1Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things.

"I say unto you" followed by a declaration that has a scope applying to others is found throughout the gospels. I already gave you an example which you conveniently ignored. Acts and other books such as Timothy all indicate the scope of this was not limited to the twelve disciples.

ambush80 · Jul 28, 2017

welderguy said:
So which is it? yes, no , or not right now?
It can't be all three.

atlashunter said:
Oh ye of little faith! You don't get to know the answer beforehand! Just wait and see what happens and then you will know the answer.

welderguy said:
pssst...(I never prayed anything...I was foolin)

So there is no answer! HA! Gotcha!

Phonies!!!!

Jokes on you. You're not one of my elect.

:rofl:

bullethead · Jul 28, 2017

welderguy said:
pssst...(I never prayed anything...I was foolin)

So there is no answer! HA! Gotcha!

Phonies!!!!

Yes welder, we are the joke.
Now go wash up it is almost bedtime for you.

welderguy · Jul 28, 2017

ambush80 said:
Jokes on you. You're not one of my elect.

You know,...without realizing it, I believe you demonstrated,in just a few posts, the strict exclusiveness of faith, prayer, and election for the chosen people of God. Amazing!
...and even alluded to His vengeance and wrath toward the non-elect.

Good work!! :clap:

Who says God doesn't use the unbeliever for His glory? :bounce:

atlashunter · Jul 28, 2017

bullethead said:
Yes welder, we are the joke.
Now go wash up it is almost bedtime for you.

It's amazing how selective they can be with the critical thinking.

atlashunter · Jul 28, 2017

welderguy said:
You know,...without realizing it, I believe you demonstrated,in just a few posts, the strict exclusiveness of faith, prayer, and election for the chosen people of God. Amazing!
...and even alluded to His vengeance and wrath toward the non-elect.

Good work!!

Who says God doesn't use the unbeliever for His glory?

You're demonstrating someone installed a root kit on your brain.

hobbs27 · Jul 28, 2017

atlashunter said:
"I say unto you" followed by a declaration that has a scope applying to others is found throughout the gospels. I already gave you an example which you conveniently ignored. Acts and other books such as Timothy all indicate the scope of this was not limited to the twelve disciples.

The works that I do...
In Acts the Apostles did the works Jesus had done.. Folks were bringing their sick just so the shadow of Peter would fall on them.. Although charismatics think this still happens today, it doesn't. It's a done deal

atlashunter · Jul 28, 2017

hobbs27 said:
The works that I do...
In Acts the Apostles did the works Jesus had done.. Folks were bringing their sick just so the shadow of Peter would fall on them.. Although charismatics think this still happens today, it doesn't. It's a done deal

I agree it doesn't happen. There is no evidence it ever did. That's a separate matter from what the verse says. The application is to "he who believes". The NIV translates the verse whosoever believes.

Let's try another verse from the same book.

John 5:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Does that apply to anyone that hears and believes? Or only to those who heard and believed from among those he was speaking to?

atlashunter · Jul 28, 2017

I should also point out here that it is translated to he who so I guess that also restricts salvation to those he was speaking to that happened to have male genitalia.

hobbs27 · Jul 28, 2017

atlashunter said:
I agree it doesn't happen. There is no evidence it ever did. That's a separate matter from what the verse says. The application is to "he who believes". The NIV translates the verse whosoever believes.

Let's try another verse from the same book.

John 5:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Does that apply to anyone that hears and believes? Or only to those who heard and believed from among those he was speaking to?

Read the entire chapter. It's not about us. Jesus was leaving them.. Sending them a comforter so they would not be orphans while he was gone.. 30-33....70ad, yet He was going to return to them.. Not us, not in our future.

You should really learn to comprehend scripture if you're going to dismiss it.

hobbs27 · Jul 28, 2017

atlashunter said:
I should also point out here that it is translated to he who so I guess that also restricts salvation to those he was speaking to that happened to have male genitalia.

Show me in the original Greek text. facepalm:

http://biblehub.com/text/john/5-24.htm

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