GON Magazine | GON Classifieds

Go Back   Georgia Outdoor News Forum > Spiritual Help and Religion Discussions > Atheists/Agnostics/Apologetics


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #826  
Old Yesterday, 04:15 PM
bullethead bullethead is online now
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Pa.
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by welderguy View Post
Has it not occurred to you that the asking is part of His plan also?

Do you not think these things through before you regurgitate your nonsense?

(Ha, been wanting to use that word "regurgitate" for a while)
Still waiting on you...
__________________
Life on Earth is an expression of the available chemistry set.
Only what can happen does happen.
Reply With Quote
  #827  
Old Yesterday, 04:21 PM
welderguy welderguy is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Ga.
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by atlashunter View Post
Oh ye of little faith! You don't get to know the answer beforehand! Just wait and see what happens and then you will know the answer.
pssst...(I never prayed anything...I was foolin)

So there is no answer! HA! Gotcha!

Phonies!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #828  
Old Yesterday, 04:38 PM
atlashunter's Avatar
atlashunter atlashunter is online now
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Parts unknown
iTrader: (3) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by welderguy View Post
pssst...(I never prayed anything...I was foolin)

So there is no answer! HA! Gotcha!

Phonies!!!!
Pssst... it doesn't matter whether you pray or not. That's the whole point.
__________________
"The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits." ~Plutarch
Reply With Quote
  #829  
Old Yesterday, 05:17 PM
hobbs27's Avatar
hobbs27 hobbs27 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dawsonville
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by atlashunter View Post
Here we go again with "what he meant to say". Let's stick with the actual words in black and white, not your alteration of them. It doesn't say, "you who believe in me". Nor does it say, "only those of you here who believe in me". It says "he who believes in me". According to Acts the performing of miracles wasn't restricted to just the 12 disciples. I suppose you follow the same method of interpretation of Mark 16 verses 15-18 since he was speaking to the apostles?
Is it a conversation between Christ and His disciples?

At anytime does He say this is for the whole world to know and extends into infinity?

Did He not limit it to ( you), as in those He was speaking to?

Sure others received the gift in Acts, but the church was in its infancy and has since matured, leaving those childish things behind.


1Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things.
__________________
"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place." <--So simple, yet so hard for most.
Reply With Quote
  #830  
Old Yesterday, 05:28 PM
atlashunter's Avatar
atlashunter atlashunter is online now
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Parts unknown
iTrader: (3) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbs27 View Post
Is it a conversation between Christ and His disciples?

At anytime does He say this is for the whole world to know and extends into infinity?

Did He not limit it to ( you), as in those He was speaking to?

Sure others received the gift in Acts, but the church was in its infancy and has since matured, leaving those childish things behind.


1Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things.
"I say unto you" followed by a declaration that has a scope applying to others is found throughout the gospels. I already gave you an example which you conveniently ignored. Acts and other books such as Timothy all indicate the scope of this was not limited to the twelve disciples.
__________________
"The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits." ~Plutarch
Reply With Quote
  #831  
Old Yesterday, 05:31 PM
ambush80's Avatar
ambush80 ambush80 is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: GA
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by welderguy View Post
So which is it? yes, no , or not right now?
It can't be all three.
Quote:
Originally Posted by atlashunter View Post
Oh ye of little faith! You don't get to know the answer beforehand! Just wait and see what happens and then you will know the answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by welderguy View Post
pssst...(I never prayed anything...I was foolin)

So there is no answer! HA! Gotcha!

Phonies!!!!
Jokes on you. You're not one of my elect.



__________________
Ezekiel 23:20-21
Reply With Quote
  #832  
Old Yesterday, 05:56 PM
bullethead bullethead is online now
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Pa.
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by welderguy View Post
pssst...(I never prayed anything...I was foolin)

So there is no answer! HA! Gotcha!

Phonies!!!!
Yes welder, we are the joke.
Now go wash up it is almost bedtime for you.
__________________
Life on Earth is an expression of the available chemistry set.
Only what can happen does happen.
Reply With Quote
  #833  
Old Yesterday, 06:04 PM
welderguy welderguy is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Ga.
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ambush80 View Post
Jokes on you. You're not one of my elect.



You know,...without realizing it, I believe you demonstrated,in just a few posts, the strict exclusiveness of faith, prayer, and election for the chosen people of God. Amazing!
...and even alluded to His vengeance and wrath toward the non-elect.

Good work!!

Who says God doesn't use the unbeliever for His glory?
Reply With Quote
  #834  
Old Yesterday, 06:06 PM
atlashunter's Avatar
atlashunter atlashunter is online now
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Parts unknown
iTrader: (3) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullethead View Post
Yes welder, we are the joke.
Now go wash up it is almost bedtime for you.
It's amazing how selective they can be with the critical thinking.
__________________
"The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits." ~Plutarch
Reply With Quote
  #835  
Old Yesterday, 06:09 PM
atlashunter's Avatar
atlashunter atlashunter is online now
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Parts unknown
iTrader: (3) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by welderguy View Post
You know,...without realizing it, I believe you demonstrated,in just a few posts, the strict exclusiveness of faith, prayer, and election for the chosen people of God. Amazing!
...and even alluded to His vengeance and wrath toward the non-elect.

Good work!!

Who says God doesn't use the unbeliever for His glory?
You're demonstrating someone installed a root kit on your brain.
__________________
"The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits." ~Plutarch
Reply With Quote
  #836  
Old Yesterday, 06:23 PM
hobbs27's Avatar
hobbs27 hobbs27 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dawsonville
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by atlashunter View Post
"I say unto you" followed by a declaration that has a scope applying to others is found throughout the gospels. I already gave you an example which you conveniently ignored. Acts and other books such as Timothy all indicate the scope of this was not limited to the twelve disciples.
The works that I do...
In Acts the Apostles did the works Jesus had done.. Folks were bringing their sick just so the shadow of Peter would fall on them.. Although charismatics think this still happens today, it doesn't. It's a done deal
__________________
"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place." <--So simple, yet so hard for most.
Reply With Quote
  #837  
Old Yesterday, 06:41 PM
atlashunter's Avatar
atlashunter atlashunter is online now
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Parts unknown
iTrader: (3) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbs27 View Post
The works that I do...
In Acts the Apostles did the works Jesus had done.. Folks were bringing their sick just so the shadow of Peter would fall on them.. Although charismatics think this still happens today, it doesn't. It's a done deal
I agree it doesn't happen. There is no evidence it ever did. That's a separate matter from what the verse says. The application is to "he who believes". The NIV translates the verse whosoever believes.

Let's try another verse from the same book.

John 5:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Does that apply to anyone that hears and believes? Or only to those who heard and believed from among those he was speaking to?
__________________
"The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits." ~Plutarch
Reply With Quote
  #838  
Old Yesterday, 06:44 PM
atlashunter's Avatar
atlashunter atlashunter is online now
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Parts unknown
iTrader: (3) Check/Add Feedback
Default

I should also point out here that it is translated to he who so I guess that also restricts salvation to those he was speaking to that happened to have male genitalia.
__________________
"The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits." ~Plutarch
Reply With Quote
  #839  
Old Yesterday, 09:02 PM
hobbs27's Avatar
hobbs27 hobbs27 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dawsonville
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by atlashunter View Post
I agree it doesn't happen. There is no evidence it ever did. That's a separate matter from what the verse says. The application is to "he who believes". The NIV translates the verse whosoever believes.

Let's try another verse from the same book.

John 5:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Does that apply to anyone that hears and believes? Or only to those who heard and believed from among those he was speaking to?
Read the entire chapter. It's not about us. Jesus was leaving them.. Sending them a comforter so they would not be orphans while he was gone.. 30-33....70ad, yet He was going to return to them.. Not us, not in our future.

You should really learn to comprehend scripture if you're going to dismiss it.
__________________
"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place." <--So simple, yet so hard for most.
Reply With Quote
  #840  
Old Yesterday, 09:05 PM
hobbs27's Avatar
hobbs27 hobbs27 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dawsonville
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by atlashunter View Post
I should also point out here that it is translated to he who so I guess that also restricts salvation to those he was speaking to that happened to have male genitalia.
Show me in the original Greek text.

http://biblehub.com/text/john/5-24.htm
__________________
"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place." <--So simple, yet so hard for most.
Reply With Quote
  #841  
Old Yesterday, 09:16 PM
bullethead bullethead is online now
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Pa.
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbs27 View Post
Read the entire chapter. It's not about us. Jesus was leaving them.. Sending them a comforter so they would not be orphans while he was gone.. 30-33....70ad, yet He was going to return to them.. Not us, not in our future.

You should really learn to comprehend scripture if you're going to dismiss it.
"Read the entire chapter" "Read the Bible in it's entirety" "It's not about us"
Now you are making some sense.
__________________
Life on Earth is an expression of the available chemistry set.
Only what can happen does happen.
Reply With Quote
  #842  
Old Yesterday, 09:31 PM
atlashunter's Avatar
atlashunter atlashunter is online now
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Parts unknown
iTrader: (3) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbs27 View Post
Read the entire chapter. It's not about us. Jesus was leaving them.. Sending them a comforter so they would not be orphans while he was gone.. 30-33....70ad, yet He was going to return to them.. Not us, not in our future.

You should really learn to comprehend scripture if you're going to dismiss it.
So you say. The passage itself doesn't make any mention of his return let alone in 70 AD. It says what it says. In one translation he who believes. In another whosoever. You want it to only apply to the disciples. You need it to say that for the obvious reason you want to find a way out of the scripture being demonstrably false. But the language used doesn't mean only the disciples any more than 5:24 which you dodged means only the audience he was speaking to.
__________________
"The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits." ~Plutarch
Reply With Quote
  #843  
Old Yesterday, 09:52 PM
hobbs27's Avatar
hobbs27 hobbs27 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dawsonville
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by atlashunter View Post
So you say. The passage itself doesn't make any mention of his return let alone in 70 AD. It says what it says. In one translation he who believes. In another whosoever. You want it to only apply to the disciples. You need it to say that for the obvious reason you want to find a way out of the scripture being demonstrably false. But the language used doesn't mean only the disciples any more than 5:24 which you dodged means only the audience he was speaking to.
You're right, it doesn't say 70 ad. It does say He was going to return to them..

John 14:28 28 You have heard Me say to you, I am going away and coming back to you. If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, I am going to the Father, for My Father is greater than I.

Now can you explain how. I can say to you Atlas. ". I will be going to bed after this comment, but I will return later to respond to you"

Can this in any way shape or form mean Im actually speaking to your offspring thousands of years from now, and not you ?
__________________
"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place." <--So simple, yet so hard for most.
Reply With Quote
  #844  
Old Yesterday, 10:10 PM
atlashunter's Avatar
atlashunter atlashunter is online now
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Parts unknown
iTrader: (3) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbs27 View Post
You're right, it doesn't say 70 ad. It does say He was going to return to them..

John 14:28 28 You have heard Me say to you, I am going away and coming back to you. If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, I am going to the Father, for My Father is greater than I.

Now can you explain how. I can say to you Atlas. ". I will be going to bed after this comment, but I will return later to respond to you"

Can this in any way shape or form mean Im actually speaking to your offspring thousands of years from now, and not you ?
That's not what it says. Don't draw some hypothetical analogy that says something different than what the scripture says. The Greek "ho" describing "the one", "he who", or "whosoever" is identical to the Greek used in John 5:24. So you tell me if you think John 5:24 doesn't apply to people living today.
__________________
"The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits." ~Plutarch
Reply With Quote
  #845  
Old Yesterday, 10:17 PM
hobbs27's Avatar
hobbs27 hobbs27 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dawsonville
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by atlashunter View Post
That's not what it says. Don't draw some hypothetical analogy that says something different than what the scripture says. The Greek "ho" describing "the one", "he who", or "whosoever" is identical to the Greek used in John 5:24. So you tell me if you think John 5:24 doesn't apply to people living today.
John 5:24 does not apply to us today.
__________________
"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place." <--So simple, yet so hard for most.
Reply With Quote
  #846  
Old Yesterday, 10:22 PM
atlashunter's Avatar
atlashunter atlashunter is online now
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Parts unknown
iTrader: (3) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbs27 View Post
John 5:24 does not apply to us today.
Thank you. And why does it not apply?
__________________
"The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits." ~Plutarch
Reply With Quote
  #847  
Old Yesterday, 10:34 PM
hobbs27's Avatar
hobbs27 hobbs27 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dawsonville
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by atlashunter View Post
Thank you. And why does it not apply?
This message was to the Jews , Jesus was ministering to about the coming judgment. (70ad), They were: through faith in Him leaving the covenant of sin and death, IE. Old covenant, and coming into the covenant of grace and eternal life. IE New covenant.

We are not of the Old covenant, therefore we don't pass from death unto life as they were doing.
__________________
"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place." <--So simple, yet so hard for most.
Reply With Quote
  #848  
Old Yesterday, 11:00 PM
atlashunter's Avatar
atlashunter atlashunter is online now
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Parts unknown
iTrader: (3) Check/Add Feedback
Default

So you're saying those living today will not face judgment? Or they will face judgment but cannot be saved? Do all people living today have eternal life regardless of belief? Or eternal life isn't attainable for anyone?
__________________
"The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits." ~Plutarch
Reply With Quote
  #849  
Old Yesterday, 11:10 PM
drippin' rock's Avatar
drippin' rock drippin' rock is offline
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Georgia
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by j_seph View Post
I know of 3 people who prayed that they would not cry, tear up one went for 2 years after that and never cried about anything. The other a year and the other 10 months.
They normally would cry about everytime they prayed, preached, or testified.
Did they convince their-self to not cry over anything at all for that amount of time? Not IMO
I see why religion has a toe hold. This has to be one of the more ridiculous things I've read lately.
Reply With Quote
  #850  
Old Yesterday, 11:16 PM
drippin' rock's Avatar
drippin' rock drippin' rock is offline
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Georgia
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbs27 View Post
I don't think you should accuse anyone of being a liar when you don't even understand the premise.

First.. Those that believe in Jesus would do the works Jesus had done... Secondly He said to His disciples.. I say to you... So Jesus is telling them, of you that believe, you also shall do the works I have done, and they did!

Also... Whatever they (His disciples) asked in His name, He did for them.

You must consider audience relevance, because what we are reading here was a conversation between Christ and His disciples.. Not Christ to the whole world. There was a time in which Christ went away to prepare a place. In that time He sent a comforter, and He gave spiritual gifts, we read all about it in Acts, but that time has expired and is no longer needed.
Ain't it funny that the Bible needs translating, even after it is translated to English? And isn't it a hoot that everyone believes their twist is the most accurate?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004 Georgia Outdoor News, Inc.Ad Management by RedTyger