That God may be all in all?

The death he died..

Roman's 6: 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

hobbs27 said:

Sin death is no more

Click to expand...

Revelation 21:3-4
And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God. 4He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away.”

I'm pretty sure people still die from sin. People still cry and experience pain and sorrow.

Artfuldodger said:

Describe the whole house of Israel that went through this resurrection. This sounds a bit different than the Church becoming Israel.

Click to expand...

The whole house was Judah and the northern tribes. The diaspora was a scattered bunch. The Gospel was bringing them back in, the two sticks were coming together in the Gospel until Christ parousia, and the resurrection.

Artfuldodger said:

Revelation 21:3-4
And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God. 4He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away.”

Click to expand...

That was about the suffering under the old covenant and sin death.

I went back and re-read Corinthians 15. It sure sounds like we will have a resurrection compared to that of Jesus. He was the firstfruits. Paul is explaining to the people that the dead in the ground will be next but in their own turn. Then he explains when this turn will be.
Paul doesn't say the resurrection is the Old Testament becoming the New or the gospel being taken for Israel and given to the Gentiles. You might can grasp that concept elsewhere but not here.

You notice body is singular?

hobbs27 said:

The death he died..

Roman's 6: 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Click to expand...

Then there is no more sin?

22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Satan is dead, sin death is dead, all of Christ's enemies are dead. Christ defeated death and died for all sin.
Now "all is in all."

Artfuldodger said:

Then there is no more sin?

22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Satan is dead, sin death is dead, all of Christ's enemies are dead. Christ defeated death and died for all sin.
Now "all is in all."

Click to expand...

There sin... it's the charge of it that's gone as Christ covers it... If you get a chance watch the video above. Talk to you later.

hobbs27 said:

You notice body is singular?

Click to expand...

For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him.

"all will be made alive."
"each in his own turn" may be a singular event of plural people.

Acts 24:15
and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Singular event of the plural.

John 5:28
Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice

Singular event of the plural.

Daniel 12:2
"Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

1 Corinthians 15:52
in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.


Even if it happened in 70AD it was a resurrection of dead people, not the Old Testament resurrecting as the New. Not the Kingdom passing from Israel to the World.
Again, that may be but it's not the singular "body" you see in Corinthians 15.

Of course it was dead people. But they were all raised in one body, not individual bodies.

http://donkpreston.com/the-resurrection/

hobbs27 said:

Of course it was dead people. But they were all raised in one body, not individual bodies.

http://donkpreston.com/the-resurrection/

Click to expand...

But in your view, the "dead" that were resurrected were the physically alive and the physically dead. They were dead in sin that resurrected in one singular body.

I don't deny the description of all God's children can be called the body of Christ, the Church. I just don't believe Paul is presenting the resurrection as this singular body.
At least in the way you believe.
I think they all resurrect at the same time(plurality). Some to eternal life and some to eternal death.
Some do resurrect to the singular body.
The corporate body, one body of many members.

It sounds very much like Universalism to say the resurrection was the body of Moses that resurrected to the Body of Christ or the body of Israel resurrected as the Church.
Then add to that saying death has been defeated. That "all is all" is already. Would you agree with what I said earlier?

"Satan is dead, sin death is dead, all of Christ's enemies are dead. Christ defeated death and died for all sin.
Now "all is in all."

If it's over then in this world there is no more sin.
22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

There can be no more sin if this is the New Jerusalem. If we are now living in the New Earth with it's new heaven, we are all are saved. We are living on a sin free restored earth. In Christ all were made alive. If that is what the resurrection was. If that is what the resurrection accomplished.

If the resurrection was the way you describe it, sin and death are gone. The resurrection made everything righteous. We were made in God's image and that would have been restored as well at the resurrection.

As for as the one body view sounding like Universalism, look within your own people. Kurt Simmons comes to mind.

Here's a look into what life is like in the New heaven and earth... Notice there's still wicked people and those without Christ on earth, but they are not in the Kingdom, although the Spirit is calling and drawing.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and *****mongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

I Like the way Preterism tries to answer this mystery of the resurrection. I just don't agree with their finding. Collectively and over the years they have re-examined the scriptures and found what they were looking for.
Answers to the age old question of the hope of the resurrection. The need of the resurrection. Answers to why one would got to heaven as a spirit at physical death only to return at a later date for a glorified body.
The whole concept of Preterism or a big part of it is explaining the resurrection as a past event in order that we can go to heaven spiritually without having to return or wait on a resurrection.
One would no longer need to hope for a future resurrection. No longer would they need a resurrection. It's past and now one can just die physically and go be with the Lord forever. One would just die and join this singular body that has already resurrected. It's a grand plan. I like it.

I like the concept, I just don't accept the answers they found. I don't accept their explanation of the resurrection, even if has already happened. Even if it's spiritual. Even if one goes to Heaven and doesn't come back.

The main concept of Preterism I don't agree with is the way they interpret the body resurrection as being singular. Being a past event doesn't bother me as much as the way they describe what the past event was.
Of course there are about 16 different groups withing Preterism so not all look at the resurrection in the same light. Futurists have their divisions based on beliefs as well.
The belief I have a problem with is the nature of the resurrection of the dead, not the 70AD timing. The Collective Body view or singular body. That Paul is always talking about the Church resurrection when he says body.
Just because he says "body" and not "bodies" they see the resurrection of the dead as those under the Law of Moses resurrecting as the Church.

That the resurrection was corporate in the sense that Christ represented this Body(singular) to his Father at the end. The end being the end of the Old and he is handing his Father the New, the Church, the bride.

That is their explanation of God being "all in all." The "all in all" was the time that God performed the redemption, reconciliation and restoration of what was lost through the entrance of sin-death into the world through Adam.
The resurrection of the dead was the "timed" event in Covenant Eschatology.
It was the crescendo and grand climax of God’s purpose that brings about the “restoration of all things”

hobbs27 said:

Here's a look into what life is like in the New heaven and earth... Notice there's still wicked people and those without Christ on earth, but they are not in the Kingdom, although the Spirit is calling and drawing.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and *****mongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Click to expand...

I can see how you see it that way. The New Jerusalem already here. Dogs are outside, believers on the inside.

In this description the gates never close, what keeps the outsiders out? Could the description of the sinners be as they are now and not in the future? That they must knock now to enter.

Revelation 20:15
Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

If ongoing, when were those outsiders thrown into the lake of fire?

Who wrote that?

John wrote it. He sees in his vision Jesus coming. Those with washed robes can enter the city. The sinners are outside at that time.
In the very next verse Jesus is saying he has presented the Gospel to the Churches.
Jesus has said to those in John's vision; The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” Let the one who hears say, “Come!” And let the one who is thirsty come, and the one who desires the water of life drink freely.

John is just looking ahead to what he sees. It's not a city that lost people can enter once it's here. They must come as per the request Jesus sent out now.
This is hard to explain. Futurist have the same problems as Preterist in answering every single story in the Bible. I can see why you see it the way you do when I put on Preterist goggles.

2 Peter 3:11-13
Since everything will be dissolved in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to conduct yourselves in holiness and godliness
12as you anticipate and hasten the coming of the day of God, when the heavens will be dissolved by fire and the elements will melt in the heat. 13But in keeping with God’s promise, we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

If everything old is replaced and dissolved, what kind of person should you be? Why a warning if one can enter at a later date? If this New Jerusalem comes down without replacing. If it co-exist with non-believers who can "come" after the description in 2 Peter 3:11-13.
Peter is saying come now because the old will be dissolved.

Maybe John is looking ahead in his vision and he sees the New Jerusalem with it's righteous and at the same time he sees the outsiders, the sinners.
This vision being how it would look before the old is destroyed. He says this before Jesus says, I've sent my offer out. He says it before the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!”.

In his vision it's before the New replaces the Old. Not that it's an ongoing process that once the New Jerusalem has replaced the old sinners can still enter. That the offer is still available to enter the new city once it replaces the old.
I'm just looking at it with my Futurist goggles, bending and twisting to make it fit.

No.. The post before. I know that's not all your writing. Seven paragraphs without a question mark. You're not fooling me, you stole that from someone. Lol.

hobbs27 said:

No.. The post before. I know that's not all your writing. Seven paragraphs without a question mark. You're not fooling me, you stole that from someone. Lol.

Click to expand...

Probably a record for me. I hope Centerpin Fan sees it.

I've looked at Preterism ever since you made the leap in that direction. For some reason the Spirit has just not lead me in that direction. Preterism does answer the Gospel accounts of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD pretty well.

Matthew 16:28
"Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

I can't deny that something happened back then. Some type of salvation. Maybe that one was physical salvation and the next one will be spiritual.
I surely don't have all the answers. My line is still crooked.