Been a while

TripleXBullies

Senior Member
We may have to wait until next month. I'd prefer to do it on a weekend that we don't have the kids. I'll be out of town the first week in November as well....
 

JB0704

The Original JB
That's cool. Ambush don't wanna fish in the cold, but Im good with it. Send a PM with the weekend that works for you, and we can make it happen.
 

TripleXBullies

Senior Member
SFD asked for an update. Still in pretty much the same place. The trip to Africa was a great experience. I learned a lot about myself. I did some more public "preaching" on Gideon. Which I think kind of applies to what I mentioned in the thread the other day about the third A trying too hard in here. I never thought I'd do that. I was doing it for pastors too. I speak publicly at work every once in a while but not enough to have ever spent time to really learn how to prep. I took a lot of feedback from my pastor on prepping. Then I actually applied that to interview prep this year. Wow what a difference.



When I think about how I explained things here, I feel like I should go back over some things. A lot of the guys in here get hung up on things. I know I did... and a lot of those things still hang me up. I visualize this wall that God broke a hole for himself in. He didn't destroy the wall, he just made a hole. I discussed that here too. The wall catches all kinds of smelly stuff. It still does. Some of the details he left on the other side of the wall. I am ok with that for now. I think it's him that's given me some peace with that too. Those hang ups completely kept it all out before. The peace says don't worry about that stuff for now, we'll get there some day.

Later on today when I have a little more time I'll make a list of some of those things. I am decent friends with my pastor and I actually plan on asking him specifically about a couple of these things.

I visualize this a little better with a different analogy. If I'm fishing and get a line hung, especially in a tournament, sometimes I put that rod down and pick something else up if I'm in a juicy spot. I'll let some slack out of the hung rod and just lay it on the deck. If I catch something on the new rod I really don't care about the the hung rod. I'll come back and worry about when I get a second or after I feel like the spot is dry. Sometimes you have to deal with it to move on, but if the spot is good, get what's good out of it and then go back to the hung rod. Sometimes it's not even hung any more by then and comes right up. I didn't want to miss the possibilities in that spot though.
 

SemperFiDawg

Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
SFD asked for an update. Still in pretty much the same place. The trip to Africa was a great experience. I learned a lot about myself. I did some more public "preaching" on Gideon. Which I think kind of applies to what I mentioned in the thread the other day about the third A trying too hard in here. I never thought I'd do that. I was doing it for pastors too. I speak publicly at work every once in a while but not enough to have ever spent time to really learn how to prep. I took a lot of feedback from my pastor on prepping. Then I actually applied that to interview prep this year. Wow what a difference.



When I think about how I explained things here, I feel like I should go back over some things. A lot of the guys in here get hung up on things. I know I did... and a lot of those things still hang me up. I visualize this wall that God broke a hole for himself in. He didn't destroy the wall, he just made a hole. I discussed that here too. The wall catches all kinds of smelly stuff. It still does. Some of the details he left on the other side of the wall. I am ok with that for now. I think it's him that's given me some peace with that too. Those hang ups completely kept it all out before. The peace says don't worry about that stuff for now, we'll get there some day.

Later on today when I have a little more time I'll make a list of some of those things. I am decent friends with my pastor and I actually plan on asking him specifically about a couple of these things.

I visualize this a little better with a different analogy. If I'm fishing and get a line hung, especially in a tournament, sometimes I put that rod down and pick something else up if I'm in a juicy spot. I'll let some slack out of the hung rod and just lay it on the deck. If I catch something on the new rod I really don't care about the the hung rod. I'll come back and worry about when I get a second or after I feel like the spot is dry. Sometimes you have to deal with it to move on, but if the spot is good, get what's good out of it and then go back to the hung rod. Sometimes it's not even hung any more by then and comes right up. I didn't want to miss the possibilities in that spot though.

Love your hole in the wall analogy. Goes to show that you may not can get a camel through the eye of a needle, buy you can get an awfully big God through it. While reading the thread for the first time yesterday, it struck me that while some do, you never seemed to completely shut the door on the supernatural: there was always 'a chance'. I think that's important. Your wall always had a peep hole.
 
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TripleXBullies

Senior Member
That's true. It was always possible. I think any A that's being honest with themselves has to leave that open, however unlikely or impossible to KNOW they mat think it is or they are as blind as they say Christians or whoever else are.
 

TripleXBullies

Senior Member
This is what I am going to ask my pastor about:

When Jesus died he left the holy spirit right? Who is here with us, guiding us and everything. I'd say he's frequently not easy to understand or understand if it's him or not since it's pretty much all internal. I have said it, probably ANYONE has said it - God, just boom to me from a cloud, talk from a donkey or a burning bush. The bible says we don't need that any more because we have the holy spirit.

Is this is a grass is always greener perspective that we wish that God would just do that for us? Man those goat herders 2000+ years ago had it so much easier. You can't deny a talking donkey! So my question for him would be, can you point me to where I can get a better feeling for how it used to be, and how we have it better because we have the holy spirit? If it was the other way around, what were they wanting and praying for that I know have at my finger tips?
 

TripleXBullies

Senior Member
I'll put at least some in the terms we frequently see them, here or maybe elsewhere. One thing I'll also say is that some of these are maybe more conceptual than very specifically scriptural. I think for most of the first two As here and myself a scripture reference that refutes or explains these likely won't do the trick...

There are plenty of explanations and responses to these. In my current experience, I am ok with putting these doubts, I guess you'd call them, aside and coming back to them later. I don't think that trying to overcome my doubts by covering them up with, "I believe 100% everything all the time," is helpful for anyone much less myself. What I can do is trust that it's ok for now and that I'll have the answers that pass my test at some point.

I'm not saying we need 10 pages of conversation for each either.


Basically the meme from Ambush - God created the structure for this system of man being sinful and requiring a sacrifice for forgiveness.

God left his throne as Jesus to be the sacrifice - He knew he'd BRB... Was leaving the throne much of a sacrifice?
 

SemperFiDawg

Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
This is what I am going to ask my pastor about:

When Jesus died he left the holy spirit right? Who is here with us, guiding us and everything. I'd say he's frequently not easy to understand or understand if it's him or not since it's pretty much all internal. I have said it, probably ANYONE has said it - God, just boom to me from a cloud, talk from a donkey or a burning bush. The bible says we don't need that any more because we have the holy spirit.

Is this is a grass is always greener perspective that we wish that God would just do that for us? Man those goat herders 2000+ years ago had it so much easier. You can't deny a talking donkey! So my question for him would be, can you point me to where I can get a better feeling for how it used to be, and how we have it better because we have the holy spirit? If it was the other way around, what were they wanting and praying for that I know have at my finger tips?

Maybe it used to be like when you first started dating your wife. You couldn't see her all the time, every day but when you did those times were precious, but now you see her everyday and you are always together. It's better, but no less precious and allows for a much deeper relationship to grow. Like the HS my wife often speaks to me and I have a hard time understanding her and her reasoning. It gets easier over time just like any relationship, but I will never completely understand her. Same with HS. I don't fret about it too much. God has a way of getting his point across to me no matter how dumb I can be.
 

TripleXBullies

Senior Member
I am kind of making that connection but maybe not like you're intending. If conversations with your wife can become run of the mill because you've always got it at your fingertips is like we've always had the HS at our fingertips then maybe. So I'd like to understand what NOT having the HS means so that maybe I can appreciate it more.
 

SemperFiDawg

Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
I am kind of making that connection but maybe not like you're intending. If conversations with your wife can become run of the mill because you've always got it at your fingertips is like we've always had the HS at our fingertips then maybe. So I'd like to understand what NOT having the HS means so that maybe I can appreciate it more.

For me, there was a time I didn't have the HS and I remember what it was like daily, because it represents the era of my life where I made the worst mistakes and did the most harm to myself and others. I can relate very well with David whe he said 'My sin is always in front of my face.' Before there was no limit to what I would say or do. Literally none. I was accountable to no one but myself. For me, THAT was NOT a good thing. After, that all changed overnight. In no way was I nor will ever be perfect, but the perspective changed.....the focus. I was, and am now accountable to Christ for my actions and Brother do I hear about them every day from the HS and most of the time several times through the day. Some guys could probably come in and explain how the Law served at least in part as the HS, or explain that for much of the OT God actually lived among the people in the tabernacle and temple so they didn't need the HS, blah, blah, blah. The thread would probably go on for 20 pages of debate over that crap and then go off track for another 10. I ain't getting the feeling that's what your after and think it's probably a good idea to do just what you plan...ask your pastor. It seems he's a friend and someone you trust. He knows you personally and is gonna be able to relate to you in a way none of us can.


Oh and one more thing. Keep that wall up and sturdy, especially when visiting these forums: not to catch the a/a
stuff, but the nutty "religious" stuff that permeates upstairs. The hardest thing for me to remember is also the simplest: it's not a belief, a religion, or even a faith, it's a relationship.
 
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TripleXBullies

Senior Member
I've felt for the longest time that your last sentence is a gimmick to bring in people who have a bad taste in their mouth from past experience. An attempt to try to re-label things. It's all of those and the same thing it's always been...... It's absolutely a religion, belief system and faith that's about having a relationship... You can call it and label it whatever you want...
 

TripleXBullies

Senior Member
I don't think that through any of the almost 10 years of agnosticism and atheism I was ever without the HS. I don't think anyone can be without it in the same sense that BC was without it. I want to be able to make that comparison. I agree that many people could weigh in. I'm open to reading it.

There was always a limit to what I'd do or say. I still had values during that time. I still have a lot of the same ones.


For me, there was a time I didn't have the HS and I remember what it was like daily, because it represents the era of my life where I made the worst mistakes and did the most harm to myself and others. I can relate very well with David whe he said 'My sin is always in front of my face.' Before there was no limit to what I would say or do. Literally none. I was accountable to no one but myself. For me, THAT was NOT a good thing. After, that all changed overnight. In no way was I nor will ever be perfect, but the perspective changed.....the focus. I was, and am now accountable to Christ for my actions and Brother do I hear about them every day from the HS and most of the time several times through the day. Some guys could probably come in and explain how the Law served at least in part as the HS, or explain that for much of the OT God actually lived among the people in the tabernacle and temple so they didn't need the HS, blah, blah, blah. The thread would probably go on for 20 pages of debate over that crap and then go off track for another 10. I ain't getting the feeling that's what your after and think it's probably a good idea to do just what you plan...ask your pastor. It seems he's a friend and someone you trust. He knows you personally and is gonna be able to relate to you in a way none of us can.
 

SemperFiDawg

Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
I've felt for the longest time that your last sentence is a gimmick to bring in people who have a bad taste in their mouth from past experience. An attempt to try to re-label things. It's all of those and the same thing it's always been...... It's absolutely a religion, belief system and faith that's about having a relationship... You can call it and label it whatever you want...

A gimmick? I'm speaking about my history, my experience and my view of my relationship with Christ. Just trying to relate that. That's all. Sorry if it tripped a " trigger" with you.
 

TripleXBullies

Senior Member
Nah. I'm just saying. Saying it's not a religion is as much "religious stuff" as most. Religion, relationship, faith... whatever you want to call it.
 

centerpin fan

Senior Member
I don't think that through any of the almost 10 years of agnosticism and atheism I was ever without the HS.

I didn't go back and reread this thread. As I often do, I started at the end and read backward. The quote above caught my eye. Unregenerate people are not indwelled by the Holy Spirit. Would you like to clarify?
 

atlashunter

Senior Member
What he wanted and what was needed 2 different things. Had I gotten what I wanted a year and a half ago instead of what I needed a year ago my life would not be what it is today spiritually, emotionally, nor physically.
Had I gotten what I wanted and asked for 13 years ago, I would not have been a widower 3 years ago. I would be a much different person today had I got what I wanted 13 years ago. I am sure you have heard God has a plan. As my late wife was rolled away for her first surgery the words I can remember her saying more so than anything she ever said to me was God has a plan, we may not like it but he does have a plan.

"God has a plan" on what evidence? The world I see is exactly what I would expect of a world with no plan.

time-100-influential-photos-kevin-carter-starving-child-vulture-87.jpg
 

atlashunter

Senior Member
This is what I am going to ask my pastor about:

When Jesus died he left the holy spirit right? Who is here with us, guiding us and everything. I'd say he's frequently not easy to understand or understand if it's him or not since it's pretty much all internal. I have said it, probably ANYONE has said it - God, just boom to me from a cloud, talk from a donkey or a burning bush. The bible says we don't need that any more because we have the holy spirit.

Is this is a grass is always greener perspective that we wish that God would just do that for us? Man those goat herders 2000+ years ago had it so much easier. You can't deny a talking donkey! So my question for him would be, can you point me to where I can get a better feeling for how it used to be, and how we have it better because we have the holy spirit? If it was the other way around, what were they wanting and praying for that I know have at my finger tips?

I'm not aware of any place in the Bible that says miracles are a thing of the past because now you have the Holy Spirit. To the contrary John chapter 14 says the following.

11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

According to this passage christians should be able to perform the same and even greater miracles that Jesus performed. Are they? It also says you can ask ANYTHING in his name and he WILL do it. That's not my interpretation. Those are the exact words. That's what it says. That is easy enough to put to the test.
 
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bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
Those direct and precise verses that are specific and to the point with no room for interpretation and yet never pan out are not popular topics that many believers want to discuss.
 

ky55

Senior Member
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