"In God we trust"

WaltL1 said:

Richie,
When you get a minute please address this -



And I'm not questioning your choice. You can prefer whoever you want to come to your aid if there is an issue. I'm just curious if say -
The issue you are having is a car wreck. One of your family members is seriously injured and needs immediate medical attention or their life is in danger. Two cars stop to see if they can help. In one car the guy is an off duty emergency room doctor. And is "someone like Atlas".
In the other car the guy is a vacuum salesman. And is a God fearing, good Christian.
I'm really curious why you would prefer the "one who knows the Lord" to be the one to try to help your loved one?

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Just because I know who he serves. I know where his morals come from and if they are in need of prayer or ask for it he can give it. There is power in prayer and in the name of Jesus. But I'm not saying I would turn down help from a non believer we don't always get what we prefer.

Spotlite said:

Just saying that it has to be miserable living with the mentality that everything could be wrong. Not feeling secure in anything........other than an opinion.

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That's right. It's treacherous. But it's the truth.

You learn how to live with it through reason instead of faith.

What do you know with God like certainty that's absolutely true?

Spotlite said:

Just saying that it has to be miserable living with the mentality that everything could be wrong. Not feeling secure in anything........other than an opinion.

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The truly insecure man is the one too fearful to admit his own fallibility or be open to seeking out and correcting where he is wrong. The people in my life who were the most staunch in their religious beliefs also tended to be the ones who were the least interested in pursuing knowledge about how nature works or putting their own beliefs to the test in a way that might actually invalidate them. They claimed absolute certainty but their mindset and behavior told another story.

atlashunter said:

They claimed absolute certainty but their mindset and behavior told another story.

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Amen! They put lightning rods on churches, carry guns for protection, where helmets on side by sides, don't ride motorcycles around Atlanta for fear of getting run over. Cry at funerals. Pray for the sick.
All trying to change God's will.

Deep down, they know the truth. When life is over, it's over. They are just playing the odds. What if there is an afterlife? They don't want to be totally left out of that either.

atlashunter said:

The truly insecure man is the one too fearful to admit his own fallibility or be open to seeking out and correcting where he is wrong. The people in my life who were the most staunch in their religious beliefs also tended to be the ones who were the least interested in pursuing knowledge about how nature works or putting their own beliefs to the test in a way that might actually invalidate them. They claimed absolute certainty but their mindset and behavior told another story.

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Does your dad still pastor a church or preach God's word

j_seph said:

Does your dad still pastor a church or preach God's word

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He's not a pastor but he is still a Christian.

atlashunter said:

He's not a pastor but he is still a Christian.

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Awesome, does your views and his cause conflict at Christmas and Thanksgiving get togethers? Just imagine it would be hard on you and him.

j_seph said:

Awesome, does your views and his cause conflict at Christmas and Thanksgiving get togethers? Just imagine it would be hard on you and him.

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It doesn't get discussed. We know where the other stands.

j_seph,

You said Jesus showed God to be gentle and loving. Leaving aside how that contradicts what we know about the god of the Old Testament... welderguy says God leads people astray for his own pleasure. Can you explain how that is gentle or loving?

atlashunter said:

j_seph,

You said Jesus showed God to be gentle and loving. Leaving aside how that contradicts what we know about the god of the Old Testament... welderguy says God leads people astray for his own pleasure. Can you explain how that is gentle or loving?

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I do not remember when or where I said that but I also cannot say God leads people astray(1. away from the correct path or direction.
2.into error or morally questionable behavior) for his own pleasure. We ourselves may follow or go after earthly things on our own accord or even be led by others but my God has never led me astray. I for many years did things without thought of seeking counsel with the Lord first and foremost and it turned into a mess. I have followed others who did not know God and again ended up in a mess. Just as an earthly dad, will do his best to lead his children on a correct path. Example and no harm intended, your great granddad, your granddad, and your dad from what I gathered all 3 preached and are Godly men. You yourself I presume from your post as well was the same. They did not lead you down the path you are on now, you did that of your own doing. God didn't want you to go that path, that was your own freewill. It is up to you to accept Christ and follow him, will our loving God punish us.............yes, what father does not punish one of their children? I am not to judge what Welderguy believes, my bible and if he is Christian his bible says the same thing to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. I know of 3 times since I started asking the Lord to get my life back on track that I knew I should have went to church and each time those 3 evenings it was rough, rough and nothing I had wanted to get accomplished got accomplished. Hence what I wanted, not what needed to be accomplished. I know where I was at in my walk and where I am at now and have enough faith that I can and will continue to testify my savior as Jesus Christ.

I keep reading the cop-out about wait until you get sick or cancer and your God does not answer you back or however it has been worded many times. See I watched my late wife battle cancer for 10 years. She never questioned God for what she went through but gave him credit that he was her savior and that he had a plan. She cried one time, one time in 10 years over this and then it was only because we could not have children. My present life is part of that plan. The 100's of people we met, that we were able to encourage and give some faith to, some emotional support for and physical support for...........part of his plan. We would have never have met these people inside of a cancer clinic without the first diagnoses. Why did she battle a brain tumor for 10 years, yet we met many with brain tumors that went on out of this life during those 10 years. Why would she live for 10 years with it while others last 4 to 6 months, same treatments?

Some of y'all in this forum may think I hate or cannot stand atheists. I don't because I know there is still a hope for each one but then again that is your decision, not God's. My wife I have now had a crush on me from grade school through Highschool. Did she ever let me know this? Not once, I was not interested in her so therefore I never went her way and she waited for me to talk to or notice her. God loves you but if your not interested in that relationship with him, why should he chase you. This was all over the place but that will be okay. Hope you have great day.

j_seph said:

God loves you but if your not interested in that relationship with him, why should he chase you. This was all over the place but that will be okay. Hope you have great day.

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Uh, to save me from eternity in H311

Just a thought.

j_seph said:

I do not remember when or where I said that but I also cannot say God leads people astray(1. away from the correct path or direction.
2.into error or morally questionable behavior) for his own pleasure.

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You said it in post 233.

Welderguy said it and provided a bible verse to support his claim. I assume you two are singing from the same sheet of music being you have the same guidebook and both claim to be in direct communication with the creator of the universe.

welderguy said:

Philippians 2:13
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

This is all of our reality in a nutshell.
But it's a BIG nutshell.

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welderguy said:

There's no contradiction. God created some for a certain purpose and others for another purpose.

All of it is for His good pleasure. He's the Creator and He can do that,justly, with His creation. It's called sovereignty.

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my post came from a copy paste from here so I did not type the words https://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html

Funny i mentioned the working out of our own salvation and it is vs 12 and I had not seen his post.
sovereignty
1 obsolete :supreme excellence or an example of it
2 a :supreme power especially over a body politic
b :freedom from external control
c :controlling influence
I do not read where God can lead us astray! God is obsolete, is a supreme power, he is free from external control, and as the verse he posted the controlling influence. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

For it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

a. For it is God who works in you: Paul here gave the reason why Christians must work out their salvation with fear and trembling - because God is working in them.

i. We take comfort in it: God who works in you. "Grace all-sufficient dwells in you, believer. There is a living well within you springing up; use the bucket, then; keep on drawing; you will never exhaust it; there is a living source within." (Spurgeon)

b. God … works in you: The idea is that since God has done and is doing a work in the Christian, the Christian therefore has a greater responsibility to work diligently with fear and trembling regarding their own salvation and walk with the Lord. God's work in us increases our responsibility; it doesn't lessen it in any way.

i. Those that take God's sovereignty and working and use them as an excuse for inaction and lethargy are like the wicked and lazy servant of Matthew 25:24-30.

ii. Those that are really God's servants use their understanding of His sovereignty and omnipotence as a motivation for greater, more dedicated service to Him.

c. Both to will and to do: God's work in us extends to the transformation of our will, as well as changing our actions (to do). Yet in light of the original exhortation to work out your own salvation, this is not a passive transaction.

d. For His good pleasure: This is the motive behind God's work in our life. He does so because it gives Him pleasure to do it.

Go down to verses
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

j_seph said:

my post came from a copy paste from here so I did not type the words

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I figured that but considering you didn't credit your source and presumably agree with your own post I'm crediting to you even if it's not your original words.

For the other bit, see the confirmation bias thread. It would be nice if you guys could get your theology straight and stop contradicting each other.

j_seph said:

my post came from a copy paste from here so I did not type the words https://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html

Funny i mentioned the working out of our own salvation and it is vs 12 and I had not seen his post.
sovereignty
1 obsolete :supreme excellence or an example of it
2 a :supreme power especially over a body politic
b :freedom from external control
c :controlling influence
I do not read where God can lead us astray! God is obsolete, is a supreme power, he is free from external control, and as the verse he posted the controlling influence. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

For it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

a. For it is God who works in you: Paul here gave the reason why Christians must work out their salvation with fear and trembling - because God is working in them.

i. We take comfort in it: God who works in you. "Grace all-sufficient dwells in you, believer. There is a living well within you springing up; use the bucket, then; keep on drawing; you will never exhaust it; there is a living source within." (Spurgeon)

b. God … works in you: The idea is that since God has done and is doing a work in the Christian, the Christian therefore has a greater responsibility to work diligently with fear and trembling regarding their own salvation and walk with the Lord. God's work in us increases our responsibility; it doesn't lessen it in any way.

i. Those that take God's sovereignty and working and use them as an excuse for inaction and lethargy are like the wicked and lazy servant of Matthew 25:24-30.

ii. Those that are really God's servants use their understanding of His sovereignty and omnipotence as a motivation for greater, more dedicated service to Him.

c. Both to will and to do: God's work in us extends to the transformation of our will, as well as changing our actions (to do). Yet in light of the original exhortation to work out your own salvation, this is not a passive transaction.

d. For His good pleasure: This is the motive behind God's work in our life. He does so because it gives Him pleasure to do it.

Go down to verses
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

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I have no argument with any of this.
God works salvation in us(elect), enabling us to work it out(manifest it).

Maybe the disagreement between you and me is that I don't think He works salvation in EVERY human being. Do you?