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Old 09-13-2017, 09:45 PM
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Default Gas or Electric (House Build)

Going along with the owner house build question. Question for those of you who live outside of city limits. About to build where there is no natural gas lines. So, the question is as follows....Propane tank for heat & cook top? or heat pump and electric range? Wife is fine with electric range...really wanting to know about heat pump or propane furnace. Going with a steel roof, so, with heat pump, 1 less thing to worry about going through the roof.

Will be doing foam insulation, so, hoping to have an energy efficient house.
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Old 09-13-2017, 09:56 PM
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We have always had an electric range, so that's what we went with. There could be some advantage to having a gas range when the power goes out, but in reality, we just use the grill in those instances. One thing we did install was a dual fuel heat system. The electric heat is real efficient until about 40 degrees, then the efficiency falls off. That's when the propane side kicks in and keeps the house nice and toasty. Having been on an all electric previously, I would highly recommend the dual fuel system. One other thing we added was radiant barrier (Techshield I believe was the name) that is under the plywood roof decking. Really great product that keeps our attic cooler in the summer.
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:09 PM
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I put a gas range in my new house, nobody on the cooking channels uses an electric cooktop. Gas heat is warmer but is subject to fluctuations in lp prices. You don't have to vent through the roof either, I vented through the eves.
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Old 09-14-2017, 12:03 AM
1gr8bldr 1gr8bldr is offline
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A gas dryer is much faster, if it matters. I like gas water heater assuming your not on a well for when the power goes out. Electric heat has come a long way. Gas/electric used to be a debate. No more, the electric is most cost efficient. About 18 seer is said to be the point of recoup for going higher seer. Since your using foam, then you will not need the backup of dual gas/heat. If you do, you will never have one side kick in to help, especially in Georgia. Gas logs are nice. The problem with "tank" gas is.... the tank. You can have it buried. Don't allow anyone to service it. They will top it off when gas prices are highest. Best to buy your tank and shop prices. If under tank contract, then you pay whatever they charge. You don't want to heat your home with "tank" propane. Electricity rarely ever goes up. Tank propane fluctuates with supply and demand. If I did not have access to natural gas, I would not bother with anything gas.
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Old 09-14-2017, 12:40 AM
1gr8bldr 1gr8bldr is offline
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Things you might like for your home plans; Central vac is nice. It's a workhorse type of vacuum. And keeps the fine dust that gets through the filter, that stuff you can see floating in the air when sunlight hits it, sends it outside. However, my wife still uses the old style. She does not like the long hose. The exception is the "dustpan" port in the kitchen designed to sweep trash into.

Another, if you know without doubt where you want it, A fold out ironing board. Folded up it disappears with a hot iron inside safely. LOL, she never shuts it.

I mentioned before, adjustable hinges on exterior doors.

Tankless water heating with recirculating setup. Money saver and no waiting hot water

Marble master shower. [No tile grout to clean ]

110 receptacles in boxing corners for security power

Garage insulated with closeable duct work/vents. [heated and cooled workshop]

All exterior doors need at least a small covering

oversize gutters and downspouts

underground, pvc gutter drains [no flex blk pipe]

Sealed crawl space for those with a crawl space is great. But expensive.

Foam "envelope"

walk up stair to attic when space allows

taller toilets

no pocket doors

Refrain from large east facing windows due to evening sun glare/heat

curtain blocks at framing stage

Do not shim upper hinges of interior doors. This will allow screws through hinges into jack to correct future sagging

Concrete will crack. wire is cheap. It will hold the concrete to the same plane/height when it cracks

All concrete regardless of size should have control/crack lines cut in squares. Rectangles will crack every time

Make sure all windows and doors open and shut freely before interior or exterior covering. Paying specific attention to margins being equal around opening. Knob side slightly higher for the anticipated settling from the weight of the door, about 1/16

2 way switches by the door and bed for fan/lighting in all bedrooms

Hallway framing to have center clear of joist for can lighting and any other area known to have can lights.

Hard piped dryer vent on exterior wall when possible, at the exact height and location, making it app 10inches long , with no bends, installed from the exterior.


I'm sure many others, that I am overlooking
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Old 09-14-2017, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjcruiser View Post
Going along with the owner house build question. Question for those of you who live outside of city limits. About to build where there is no natural gas lines. So, the question is as follows....Propane tank for heat & cook top? or heat pump and electric range? Wife is fine with electric range...really wanting to know about heat pump or propane furnace. Going with a steel roof, so, with heat pump, 1 less thing to worry about going through the roof.

Will be doing foam insulation, so, hoping to have an energy efficient house.
If you go with propane, look into an outdoor mounted free standing tankless water heater. The best thing I ever did as far as cutting utility bill. And you never run out of hot water.

As for heat. I have a 3 ton gas pack unit for the downstairs and 1.5 heat pump upstairs. The upstairs unit hardly ever comes on in the winter. The gas unit migrates enough heat up the stairs and we just run the fan in the upstairs unit unless it is extremely cold.

Anyway this set eliminated the need for any roof vents and have an electric range/ovens.
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Old 09-14-2017, 09:25 AM
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There are pros and cons to both. I personally have never liked the idea of intentionally piping explosive gases into my home, esp in todays time when electric appliances are very conservative. But, that being said, if I were building new, I would have back-up provisions such as whole home generator and wood burning fireplace(s).
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Old 09-14-2017, 09:49 AM
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1gr8bldr has given excellent advice. I agree with everything he said except for sealing the crawlspace. I don't like that idea. I have foam insulation in my exterior walls and against roof decking. Fiberglass between the floor joists. Heating and cooling my house has not been a problem. As far as a stove, I refuse to have anything other than gas. I'm planning to do a gas tankless water heater in the future ( should have done it when I built). I went with a heat pump for the simple fact that my primary heat is a wood burner and the heat pump fan runs continuously. I have a return close to the wood burner so that it pulls in the warm air and distributes it throughout the whole house.
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Old 09-14-2017, 09:57 AM
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Noone has ever built the perfect house, so don't think that it will happen. I've been building since 1996 and put A LOT of thought into my house before I broke ground. There are a few things that I would do different next time, but nothing major. Remember that you will never have too many receptacles or too much closet space. If you don't think you need it, do it anyway.
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Old 09-14-2017, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joey1919 View Post
I put a gas range in my new house, nobody on the cooking channels uses an electric cooktop. Gas heat is warmer but is subject to fluctuations in lp prices. You don't have to vent through the roof either, I vented through the eves.
We don't have any professionals cooking on our stove top either. LOL. I will say, the gas ranges look great and are more top of line...but they are a pain to clean when spills happen and the wife is fine with electric...so...that seems to be pretty low down the list.

The heat pump is my biggest concern as I've always had gas heat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1gr8bldr View Post
Things you might like for your home plans; Central vac is nice. It's a workhorse type of vacuum. And keeps the fine dust that gets through the filter, that stuff you can see floating in the air when sunlight hits it, sends it outside. However, my wife still uses the old style. She does not like the long hose. The exception is the "dustpan" port in the kitchen designed to sweep trash into.

Another, if you know without doubt where you want it, A fold out ironing board. Folded up it disappears with a hot iron inside safely. LOL, she never shuts it.

I mentioned before, adjustable hinges on exterior doors.

Tankless water heating with recirculating setup. Money saver and no waiting hot water

Marble master shower. [No tile grout to clean ]

110 receptacles in boxing corners for security power

Garage insulated with closeable duct work/vents. [heated and cooled workshop]

All exterior doors need at least a small covering

oversize gutters and downspouts

underground, pvc gutter drains [no flex blk pipe]

Sealed crawl space for those with a crawl space is great. But expensive.

Foam "envelope"

walk up stair to attic when space allows

taller toilets

no pocket doors

Refrain from large east facing windows due to evening sun glare/heat

curtain blocks at framing stage

Do not shim upper hinges of interior doors. This will allow screws through hinges into jack to correct future sagging

Concrete will crack. wire is cheap. It will hold the concrete to the same plane/height when it cracks

All concrete regardless of size should have control/crack lines cut in squares. Rectangles will crack every time

Make sure all windows and doors open and shut freely before interior or exterior covering. Paying specific attention to margins being equal around opening. Knob side slightly higher for the anticipated settling from the weight of the door, about 1/16

2 way switches by the door and bed for fan/lighting in all bedrooms

Hallway framing to have center clear of joist for can lighting and any other area known to have can lights.

Hard piped dryer vent on exterior wall when possible, at the exact height and location, making it app 10inches long , with no bends, installed from the exterior.


I'm sure many others, that I am overlooking
Lots of great ideas. Parents house has central vac and it seems to be used the same as yours. LOL.

Good thinking on the hallway cans with the framing..didn't think of that.

We have a few pocket doors We have them now and they're good in certain spots.

Appreciate the advise. House is on slab, so we're good there.


When you say boxing corners...is that up on the eaves in the corners?
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Old 09-14-2017, 12:32 PM
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We are building right now on a rural piece of property. The cooktop and tankless external water heater will be propane. 18 seer heat pump with a Heatilator wood stove and the HVAC guy is wiring up the furnace so I can run the fan only while using the woodstove. I'm putting 2 returns up in the peak of the hallway upstairs that overlook the vaulted den and kitchen area to try and circulate the heat that collects at the ceiling over the vaulted rooms. Good luck, it sure is an exciting time.
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Old 09-14-2017, 12:58 PM
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safe room.....outside hot water faucet.......
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Old 09-14-2017, 06:43 PM
1gr8bldr 1gr8bldr is offline
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Cabinets.... can't say enough. Many times people falsely assume "good" cabinets based on price or marketing. Most times, custom built is better than the higher quality box cabinets. But they cost more and have a waiting time. No particle board, plastic corner braces, or corner staples. Look closely at the "mock" examples. Press down on the floor of the cabinet near the middle of the side edges, If you can separate even 1/16, then it reveals the method that they used in attaching it together. I have seen quality box cabinets, so we can't assume cheap. Built in trash cans, a joke. You don't want a trash can this small. You need a dbl door cabinet for a removable, sizeable trash can. Self closing drawer slides, just a gimic. Drawers are not pushed shut as if momentum finishes the shutting of the drawer. Good slides will be worth the extra $. Lazy susans give good access to a reduced capacity. Worth it to me to have good access but a waste of lots of space. Undercounter lights are nice and look nice at night with everything else turned off. Pull out drawers within the cabinet drawers are nice. Refrigerators these days are huge. No one buys a standard Frig anymore. A Frig can ruin a kitchen. Unless you recess, create a cavity , in the wall behind so that the frige flushes up with the face of the cabinets. This means app 80"x48'x12" is taken from the space/room behind. So many times I have seen a cabinet sticking out into the walkway of a kitchen. Ruins the flow and looks like stupid. I'm not sure what the lure of a gas cooktop is????? I think it is assumed better because it cost more???? I'm all about functionality. The electric cooktop gives a sleek, clean look to the counter and cleans up easy. But maybe I'm missing something... and likely so, because I don't spend much time in the kitchen. Knobs, loctite everyone. Crown, on the cabinets, go with the wider 3+ inch
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Old 09-14-2017, 11:00 PM
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Like others have said be careful with propane. Own your tank and shop for prices.
I made the mistake of renting the tank, they do the maintenance and repairs, and I've recently been stuck paying twice the going rate for gas. In fact it's gotten so bad that I'm waiting for the regional manager to call me because I gave them the ultimatum to sell me the tank or take it out. 4.50 gal for propane is ridiculous.
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Old 09-14-2017, 11:29 PM
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Like others have said be careful with propane. Own your tank and shop for prices.
I made the mistake of renting the tank, they do the maintenance and repairs, and I've recently been stuck paying twice the going rate for gas. In fact it's gotten so bad that I'm waiting for the regional manager to call me because I gave them the ultimatum to sell me the tank or take it out. 4.50 gal for propane is ridiculous.


Wow.


You can BUY a new 20gal propane tank WITH fuel...from a gas station for cheaper.


You were getting HOSED, i would Have never let that slide. A 100 *gallon tank* is 100 bux or less on CL.


I saw one half filled for $100 a cpl months ago!!

Last edited by BornNRaised; 09-15-2017 at 12:21 AM.
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Old 09-14-2017, 11:30 PM
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Btw, we have a place in lake arrowhead- all electric...


Storms come through and you are screwed without a gen set.


Nuff said, no thanks.


No more all electric for us.

Find another way
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Old 09-14-2017, 11:42 PM
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If I can help it I will never live in a home without both gas and electric. I want a gas stove and at the very least gas logs for a source of heat if I ever need them.
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Old 09-15-2017, 07:32 AM
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In case of power outage, you need a gas water heater with county water supply. If not this combination, then you get no hot water when the power goes out. Some tankless models may be able to operate without power???? But not the one's I have seen. Gas logs are a good source of heat when the power goes out. Georgia probably does not get much ice outages. Summer hurricane outages don't require heat. Some things to weight out
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Old 09-15-2017, 01:38 PM
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My wife wouldn't have anything other than gas range. Instant heat , better control.. Little more trouble to clean. Mine you can use the burners if the power is off but not the oven. We have high efficiency central gas furnace(still going since '94) with gas logs and an unvented infrared heater as backup.

Have asaphalt shingles(original '94). Irma blew 10 good trees down around house but they hung in there. Will replace in next yr or two, keeping and eye on them.

Own your tank, buy 500 or 330 gal min size and purchase the fuel in the summer time.

I had central vacuum and central humidity(built into HVAC) and enjoyed both in my previous house.
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Old 09-15-2017, 09:25 PM
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I used to live in the suburbs of Atlanta and there were times during the winters when I was happy that I had natural gas for cooking, heating and hot water. A small generator kept the freezer and fridge cool. The garage had a gas wall heater and the fire place had gas logs. We went as long 4 days without power and kept the house comfortable.
Now I live in Alabama in the country with electric heat and water and the stove and fireplace are propane. I added a propane catalytic heater that together with the fireplace logs keeps the house snug in power outages.
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Old 09-15-2017, 10:00 PM
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Thinking if we go all electric, we'll definitely have a generator for backup.
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Old 09-15-2017, 10:52 PM
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Thinking if we go all electric, we'll definitely have a generator for backup.
Generac seems to be the best for residential. It will crank itself to keep it from sitting to long. They have "smart" generators that monitor loads prioritizing loads, etc. About $7000 to run a 3000 sqft house.... something about like that if I recall.
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Old 09-16-2017, 05:26 PM
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Sorry if this has already been said. I tried to scan thru all the post.

On your HVAC you can have both. It's called a duel fuel system.
Heat pumps are really only efficient down to around 35 degrees. You can get a system that will operate the heat pump until the outside ambient temp is below 35 then it switches to propane/natural gas. The upfront cost will be more but it's a good system.
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Old 09-17-2017, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blood on the ground View Post
If I can help it I will never live in a home without both gas and electric. I want a gas stove and at the very least gas logs for a source of heat if I ever need them.
This is what I did when I built. Gas water heater to. Not propane. I have 2 direct vent fireplaces also. They turn off and on with a light switch. I checked the other day when power was out to see if they work without electricity and they do. I did a heat pump with electric backup for heat. I can't say about propane but it sounds like several on here have some good advice. Good luck with your build
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Old 09-17-2017, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRyder View Post
Sorry if this has already been said. I tried to scan thru all the post.

On your HVAC you can have both. It's called a duel fuel system.
Heat pumps are really only efficient down to around 35 degrees. You can get a system that will operate the heat pump until the outside ambient temp is below 35 then it switches to propane/natural gas. The upfront cost will be more but it's a good system.
The fans won't work without power. If it's in the budget, set up for generator power even if you buy the gen. later and this system would be good. Someone said gas heat is warmer. Not true. 75 degrees is 75 degrees no matter the source. Gas heat is dryer. If your gas furnace runs a lot you'll want to hydrate the air
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