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Old 11-11-2017, 10:04 AM
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Default Nothing is hidden from Him with whom we have to do...

Does the believer proceed from this place? In this place?

That we do not even know our own motives for a thing, but our God always does?

Are we an "open book" to someone? Even if we are remarkably obscure even to our own selves?

I have been pressed in (or to) this thinking for some time as we seek advancement in the face of what is seen to comprehend the unseeable, and eternal God.

This matter of "with whom we have to do".

We daily face the unseen. We know of the hits we take from outside, and even inside, against what seems the paradox of it.

But, in this, our relationship to Him whom we call our God and Father (of both us, and the Lord Jesus Christ) through the faith of Jesus Christ we encounter the many obstacles resisting that faith. The things that would seek to contradict.

The unbeliever, of course, has no such conflict to face. It is not to say he may know nothing of conflict within himself, I don't believe any of us doubt that. But we, in the most basic (open to repudiation and correction) sense are "open to" and being handled by the all in all of what is unseen. And that "all in all" has given us a consciousness of Himself through Christ, indeed made His mind ours, through Jesus Christ. The very present minding of the things He minds, and is minding.

The heights and depths we may easily admit to being unknown to us, (in any in particular) but there remains the confession of our faith, in which "having the mind" of Christ is all consistent.

I think we know what could be concluded to derision in the epithet cast of having an "invisible friend". The "He's not really there" (and you worship your own mind's construct) sort of verbage.

In this we may even question our own selves when the seas rage. Or at least to us, seem to. Those peculiar battles the believer has now entered into where He is to be equipped with the Lord's word and instruction...even in this thing...
"For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds."

In this matter we have been given all advantage through our Lord's victory. We are those made able to consider...Him. And in this...is it not being made manifestly true to us, that all men, regardless of confession, regardless of self statement to "their own" position and declaration, are always dealing in the unseen? And this in particular in the matter of communications...relationships?

"Look", one may say, "I deal in the real, the true, my friends (such as they are) are of flesh and blood and bone" ...truly substantial (And my knowledge, likewise)
One may be particularly enticed to the voicing with impunity "I know them, can see them, can touch them, unlike your 'invisible friend'..."

But...what do we know?

We do know we are all of us in the thrust of the unseen. Yet claiming Him to be knowable. And that indeed, He makes Himself known through One particular, Jesus Christ.

The unbeliever may not know, or care to yet embrace the truth that he is likewise all about "caught up" in the unseen. He believes he knows things. Real things. Eschewing what he may call the unreal, the spiritual...to the manifest expression of "no such thing". He may even be totally unaware of his own soul.

Yet...he is caught. All of a man's relating, (every man, if I may be bold) is to/toward, and in, the unseen. The fragments of being he "sees" that he may call his wife, his children, indeed, his "friends" (those he believes he knows most closely) identifying most strongly to the fragments and not the essences, remain the unseen to him. The unknowns. Otherwise no man would have ever stood, or wept, or scratched his head in divorce proceedings admitting to himself "I had no idea, I really had no idea". Or stood in stunned wonder (and inward grief) at the betrayal by a "friend". No, we are all boundless seas to one another, mostly because to ourselves we are no less a mystery.

We are not used to dealing, perhaps, in transparency. And it might be that, perhaps, this matter of the unseen "god" is due less to his being unseeable than the making of Himself all of transparency in Jesus Christ. The withholding of nothing of Himself made plain, to which we are not accustomed in all our previous dealings "in the world". To us, in former mind, there is no weaker stance "in the world", we may have feared being "seen through". Yet, is this not what Jesus Christ submitted to? Of such transparency that "even" the invisible God is seen?

And all our ways are all subject to change. Through Him who made Himself as nothing...that the all in all of everything, might be beheld. Even through death itself, that He who is all "of life" might be made plain. In us, who believe.

We are living epistles to the world, and one another.
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For in him dwells the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Last edited by Israel; 11-11-2017 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 11-11-2017, 03:05 PM
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Does the believer proceed from this place? In this place?

That we do not even know our own motives for a thing, but our God always does?

Are we an "open book" to someone? Even if we are remarkably obscure even to our own selves?

I have been pressed in (or to) this thinking for some time as we seek advancement in the face of what is seen to comprehend the unseeable, and eternal God.

This matter of "with whom we have to do".

We daily face the unseen. We know of the hits we take from outside, and even inside, against what seems the paradox of it.

But, in this, our relationship to Him whom we call our God and Father (of both us, and the Lord Jesus Christ) through the faith of Jesus Christ we encounter the many obstacles resisting that faith. The things that would seek to contradict.

The unbeliever, of course, has no such conflict to face. It is not to say he may know nothing of conflict within himself, I don't believe any of us doubt that. But we, in the most basic (open to repudiation and correction) sense are "open to" and being handled by the all in all of what is unseen. And that "all in all" has given us a consciousness of Himself through Christ, indeed made His mind ours, through Jesus Christ. The very present minding of the things He minds, and is minding.

The heights and depths we may easily admit to being unknown to us, (in any in particular) but there remains the confession of our faith, in which "having the mind" of Christ is all consistent.

I think we know what could be concluded to derision in the epithet cast of having an "invisible friend". The "He's not really there" (and you worship your own mind's construct) sort of verbage.

In this we may even question our own selves when the seas rage. Or at least to us, seem to. Those peculiar battles the believer has now entered into where He is to be equipped with the Lord's word and instruction...even in this thing...
"For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds."

In this matter we have been given all advantage through our Lord's victory. We are those made able to consider...Him. And in this...is it not being made manifestly true to us, that all men, regardless of confession, regardless of self statement to "their own" position and declaration, are always dealing in the unseen? And this in particular in the matter of communications...relationships?

"Look", one may say, "I deal in the real, the true, my friends (such as they are) are of flesh and blood and bone" ...truly substantial (And my knowledge, likewise)
One may be particularly enticed to the voicing with impunity "I know them, can see them, can touch them, unlike your 'invisible friend'..."

But...what do we know?

We do know we are all of us in the thrust of the unseen. Yet claiming Him to be knowable. And that indeed, He makes Himself known through One particular, Jesus Christ.

The unbeliever may not know, or care to yet embrace the truth that he is likewise all about "caught up" in the unseen. He believes he knows things. Real things. Eschewing what he may call the unreal, the spiritual...to the manifest expression of "no such thing". He may even be totally unaware of his own soul.

Yet...he is caught. All of a man's relating, (every man, if I may be bold) is to/toward, and in, the unseen. The fragments of being he "sees" that he may call his wife, his children, indeed, his "friends" (those he believes he knows most closely) identifying most strongly to the fragments and not the essences, remain the unseen to him. The unknowns. Otherwise no man would have ever stood, or wept, or scratched his head in divorce proceedings admitting to himself "I had no idea, I really had no idea". Or stood in stunned wonder (and inward grief) at the betrayal by a "friend". No, we are all boundless seas to one another, mostly because to ourselves we are no less a mystery.

We are not used to dealing, perhaps, in transparency. And it might be that, perhaps, this matter of the unseen "god" is due less to his being unseeable than the making of Himself all of transparency in Jesus Christ. The withholding of nothing of Himself made plain, to which we are not accustomed in all our previous dealings "in the world". To us, in former mind, there is no weaker stance "in the world", we may have feared being "seen through". Yet, is this not what Jesus Christ submitted to? Of such transparency that "even" the invisible God is seen?

And all our ways are all subject to change. Through Him who made Himself as nothing...that the all in all of everything, might be beheld. Even through death itself, that He who is all "of life" might be made plain. In us, who believe.

We are living epistles to the world, and one another.

Interesting.
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1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
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  #3  
Old 11-12-2017, 09:44 AM
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I am especially fond of the book Nehemiah. It resonates with me like a fine old guitar's frets fingered by uncommon hands.

I read in Chapter nine verse 30 "Yet many years didst thou forbear them, and testifiedst against them by the spirit in the thy prophets: yet would they not five ear: threfore gavest thou them into the hand of the people of the lands."

Now this is how they came to be prophets, "they testifiedst by thy spirit" ( paraphrase)... That is, if my understanding is correct, they were prophets because God's spirit was in them.

Now is this equally how the prophets testify today? Is the Holy Spirit ( the spirit of the living God) only in the believers today? As a teacher He teaches only in us? As a healer He heals only in us? As a lover He loves only in us? As a ruler He rules only in us?

The face of a man is it as we see him the face God seeks and sees? And the face of God so often claimed to be sought...what could be this face on Him almighty?

Paul says we are the body of Christ... the body of the savior, yet Jesus is bodily with the Father now.

God said in David's psalms that one day He would teach us directly and that he would put food in our mouths--to make emphasis that for His people it would no longer be men teaching men and nor for the world's lords they would be dependent.

I will assume that the prophets of old were men teaching men--prophets who testified by His spirit? Are those to Christ, the brothers of Jesus today no more than the prophets of old? We teach each other? We warn each other of the ups and downs of grace and backsliding?

Or it is something else for us that God had in mind? Do we testify against ourselves? Or do we testify of Jesus how He was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born to Mary... Jesus who ministered to man not as prophets do, but as God teaching man and healing him because He was God, who innocent and sinless, suffered taking on the sins of the world, all the sins of man, was put to death by men who perceived His grace evil to them, but raised from the dead on the third day as per the prophets, ministered to men in a glorified body, ascended to heaven with the Father...who's spirit was in the prophets of old from which the prophets testified against men?

Now, today the spirit of God is revealed different to that which He was known before Jesus was born to Mary.

Now the fathers of the great men and women of God in the ancient days (before Jesus) saw God physically only in part this serving His purpose for them. But to our fathers He was seen whole in Sympathy and Likeness to them.


Is our testimony of a risen Saviour, God or is it one of the fallen world as the ancient witnessed of and through His spirit? The dreams we dream are they of the saints being extirpated from their kingdom or of Jesus with John and Peter, with the pell mell of the ordinary man's life, with lovers and haters--- and with his mother in heaven.


Nehemiah 9:6

6 Thou, even thou, art Lord alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.
----------------------------------------


The heaven of heavens and Jesus there do we witness, do we testify that God keeps his promises, and that His food for us is Him visible and invisible, spiritual and physical--seeing Him in various ways the scales from our eyes having fallen down and towards Him our eyes seeing and our ears hearing and our fingers touching and our noses His fragrance, our minds settled? Prophets, the sons of prophets, what do we find when our fathers said to seek Jesus and we would find Him and Jesus said to seek the kingdom. Is seems to me that we have issues about witnessing of these...? Why are we fools of the greatest foolishness which is our greatest blessing? Why are we good a cursing men and yet claim to praise God-- being dumb and numb to witness the relationship which is ours according to His promises? We say "The bible says." and " The commentators say." And we can find and produce each. Many say they have found Jesus but testify not of this, produce no witness of God, but against the world they prophecy not unlike the ancients did. I don't know about you ---there is something amiss in this? Where Lord? Here but not here, there but not there?
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1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Last edited by gordon 2; 11-12-2017 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 11-12-2017, 02:46 PM
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Thou, even thou, art Lord alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

amen.

The whole of the earth is now flooded past the staunchest gunwale in a way "before" never known.


But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou? But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart. Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

Ours is nothing more than clad space in which the Spirit speaks and speaks of those things the whole of creation knows, and is made aware of by that same Spirit. We are reminders. Of what is already spoken, and already heard.

And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

A man may awaken to "this I know for I have heard it from somewhere before".
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Old 11-12-2017, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Israel View Post
Thou, even thou, art Lord alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

amen.

The whole of the earth is now flooded past the staunchest gunwale in a way "before" never known.


But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou? But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart. Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

Ours is nothing more than clad space in which the Spirit speaks and speaks of those things the whole of creation knows, and is made aware of by that same Spirit. We are reminders. Of what is already spoken, and already heard.

And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

A man may awaken to "this I know for I have heard it from somewhere before".
Yes...on my mother's knees I knew it not because she said it, thought she did, but because it was bred in me to know that in the design of love God is there. And today though my mother's fragrance is gone from me, God's is not.

God's designs are interesting to say the least.
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1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
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Old 11-13-2017, 06:28 AM
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Yes...on my mother's knees I knew it not because she said it, thought she did, but because it was bred in me to know that in the design of love God is there. And today though my mother's fragrance is gone from me, God's is not.

God's designs are interesting to say the least.

Hallelujah!
Amen!
He is! Isn't He?
Interesting.
__________________
For in him dwells the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Last edited by Israel; 11-13-2017 at 06:46 AM.
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