? about powder burn for 308 in 16.5 vs 20 inch barrels

• Dec 11, 2017

• #41

pdsniper

Senior Member

If you have not all ready bought her a rifle you might want to look at the Savage Ulta Lite hunter they have a had excellent reviews I have one that I stuck in a MDT LSS chassis just because I did not want a wood stock, mine is in 6.5 Creedmoor and I love it

 

• Dec 12, 2017

• #42

sea trout

2021 Turkey Challenge Winner 2022 biggest turkey ?

Wow thanks y'all so much for all the help with Ruger vs Winchester!!!!
We endend up getting a Sako!!! Sako m85 308 with 1 in 11 inch twist! I hope it rings the gong at 400 yards!!!
The Sako just kind of presented itself locally and the gentleman wanted the Kimber and we had a few bucks to boot. The wife held the Sako and loved it. It's not as compact as the Ruger was but it's pretty compact and well balanced. She likes it so far.
I gotta get some rings for it asap! Anyone got any ideas or I'm gonna check out Midway or Sportsmans Guide. The Sako 85 has bases like molded on or integrated on there

 

• Dec 13, 2017

• #43

BriarPatch99

Senior Member

Those are nice rifles ... ! !!!

They use the Optilock™ scope mounts ... Sako makes mounts ... Leupold makes a RM Sako mount, Millet does, Talley .... am sure other make mounts also.

 

Last edited: Dec 13, 2017

• Dec 13, 2017

• #44

sea trout

2021 Turkey Challenge Winner 2022 biggest turkey ?

Thanks BriarPatch I know you helped A LOT answering our ruger vs winchester questions and then we ended up with somthin completely differnt!!!
We appreciate you and the other guys helpin us on this question and all our questions in the past and probably in the future I'm sure!

 

• Dec 13, 2017

• #45

Jester896

Senior Clown

http://www.chuckhawks.com/sako_85_rifles.htm

 

• Dec 13, 2017

• #46

rosewood

Senior Member

BriarPatch99 said:

The theory that using a faster powder in a shorter barrel will give more velocity has been disproved many many times over ...

The powder that gives the highest velocity will give the highest in a short or long barrel ...

...

Click to expand...

I have had the opposite experience at least with my 14" contender in .223. Using H322 got me higher velocity with a 45 grain bullet than using H335 unless my chronograph was lying to me. I also noticed a considerable difference in muzzle report, the H322 being quieter.

Rosewood

 

• Dec 13, 2017

• #47

rosewood

Senior Member

One other thing to consider, a 16.5" barrel is going to have more muzzle blast than a 20" barrel. You for sure need to use ear plugs when hunting using a 16.5" barrel.

I personally would go with a 20" barrel myself. It really is a good compact length for hunting.

Rosewood

 

• Dec 13, 2017

• #48

BriarPatch99

Senior Member

You know there are exceptions for anything under the Sun ...

As a general rule the theory has been disproved ...

http://www.accuratereloading.com/223sb.html

 

Last edited: Dec 13, 2017

• Dec 13, 2017

• #49

rosewood

Senior Member

BriarPatch99 said:

You know there are exceptions for anything under the Sun ...

As a general rule the theory has been disproved ...

http://www.accuratereloading.com/223sb.html

Click to expand...

Look at the data closer. When u get down to shorter barrels, the faster h322 passes the vv powder slightly at the max load.

 

• Dec 13, 2017

• #50

BriarPatch99

Senior Member

That proved your exception ... That is why I linked it ...

It is one of the exceptions ... Rare ...

 

• Dec 14, 2017

• #51

rosewood

Senior Member

I was perusing my Hornady manual last night and found many more exceptions in the handgun section (Encore and Contender) where this occurs more often than I thought. I do not know if there is a magic number for barrel length or not where this phenomena becomes more prevalent. Probably depends on the caliber and powder being used.

In the 10" contender in 7mmTCU. Using H322 powder (somewhere around 25 grains of powder), it sounds like a cannon going off. I switched to using 2400 (around 18-19 grains of powder) and it is much more pleasant and there is no loss in velocity. Funny thing is, the majority of data for the 7TCU is with the typical rifle powders, H4895, H322 etc that have a tremendous muzzle report. I have found limited data with 2400, H110, IMR4227 etc, yet the results are just as good in the 10" barrel with less report. One would think in the days of Sillywet shooting, that those powders would have been used more in the short barrels.

Rosewood

 

• Dec 14, 2017

• #52

BriarPatch99

Senior Member

The one key item that over looked in some of these comparisons is chamber pressures ...

If peak pressure is taken into count the slower powder at the same pressure will almost always give more velocity ....

It takes more of the slower powder to reach the same pressure ... and as a result gives more velocity....

Muzzle blast and efficiency are not included it this "picture" ... Sure there are better suited powders taking all into the picture. Please note I never included muzzle blast or efficiency in any of my statements ...

Reloading data as you know does not always make use of the full capabilities of some powders and the lawyer downing also as taken an effect ... along with a whole host of people that lack the skills to use data as the guideline it is ...

I still stand behind my statement that the powder that gives the highest velocity in a long barrel ...Will also give the highest in a short barrel. Given full load optimization ... It will happen in very high percentage of the time ... I know there are exceptions ....

 

• Dec 14, 2017

• #53

rosewood

Senior Member

You are correct about chamber pressure, take 2 practically identical guns, one has a longer throat than the other, the longer throat will have lower pressure and therefore less velocity than the shorter throat with the same load.

 

• Dec 14, 2017

• #54

BriarPatch99

Senior Member

That along with actual bore diameter ... Bore finish ... type rifling .... there is a whole host of little things that add up to the differences that we see in two rifles what should be identical ...

They are different ...this makes comparing any two guns ... almost a dream ...

That is the fun part of this whole game... !!!

 

• Dec 14, 2017

• #55

Beagler282

“Rabbit Man”

My father and I both shoot the M77 Mark II compact in .308 . He prefers the 165 grain and I like the 150 grain. We switched from the Federal loads and went to the Hornady Superformance SST loads. I prefer the 150 because it's rated at 3000 fps and just seems to shoot better at a longer distance from my gun. I can't give any info for 400 yd shots because I have never shot a deer or practiced over 300 yds. I get the same results from that round either at 40 yds or 300 when it comes to complete pass through. Even though the Hornady Superformance is a hotter load than most the recoil is still minimal in this gun. I understand why she likes the compact so much. Very light and easy to throw up and shoot. She nor you would be disappointed in the gun with the right ammo.

 

• Dec 23, 2017

• #56

GunnSmokeer

Senior Member

I have a sporterized 1903 Springfield in .30-06 with an 18" barrel.
I don't recall the exact figures, but before I bought it, I ran the ballistics to see how much performance it would lose at longer ranges due to having 6" of barrel chopped off.

The answer, as I recall, was not very much. If I lost 100 or 200 f.p.s. at the extreme-longest-shot-I'd ever attempt distance of about 400 yards, that wouldn't have any real effect on the bullet's point of impact or kinetic energy.

So far, though, I've never tested the thing past 200 yards.
One day I'll have to bring it to RiverBend Gun Club and shoot it at 300 and 600 yards during some match where hunting rifles are allowed.