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  #51  
Old 05-11-2018, 03:28 PM
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I’ve had my hands on the bottom locker handles more than once.
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  #52  
Old 05-11-2018, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
Yep, no rules, sell them in vending machines where the 10 year old kid can buy one. They are quite adept at handling firearms.
I love it. Keep posting these type posts. Your relevance will arrive soon.
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  #53  
Old 05-16-2018, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Jester896 View Post
yep...every Tom, Dick, or Harry should have a gun at school because it is their 2A Right.

I wonder why Tom, Dick, and Harry can't exercise their 2A Rights in a Municipal Courthouse or a Federal Courthouse...I mean after all it is absolute. What about a USACE Boat Ramp....I see Tom, Dick, and Harry carrying one there all the time.

I don't want or need a byproduct protecting my kids or anyone elses.
Why do you hate the Constitution?
Realy. I do see your point. But I also see that if we accept the 2nd, as written, there are no real restrictions.
There is a cost to freedom. What are we willing to pay?
It seems we are all open to "reasonable" restrictions of our freedoms.
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  #54  
Old 05-16-2018, 05:23 PM
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I'm not sure how you conclude that I hate the Constitution.

I do believe that every teacher has the right to keep and bear arms. I would just rather them be a part of a Well regulated militia if they are charged with keeping our children safe...On School Grounds...one of those reasonably restricted places.

Like I said in that other post a bit back...I/You maintain your rights... you just chose to relinquish them in restricted areas...if you don't want to relinquish them...stay out of restricted places.
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  #55  
Old 05-16-2018, 05:41 PM
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Or just get one of these and hide it well
https://twbrandsgear.com/collections/non-metallic
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  #56  
Old 05-16-2018, 06:22 PM
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I'm not sure how you conclude that I hate the Constitution.

I do believe that every teacher has the right to keep and bear arms. I would just rather them be a part of a Well regulated militia if they are charged with keeping our children safe...On School Grounds...one of those reasonably restricted places.

Like I said in that other post a bit back...I/You maintain your rights... you just chose to relinquish them in restricted areas...if you don't want to relinquish them...stay out of restricted places.
I guess it is like the Bible.
There are literalist, and there are those who try to interpret it as it applies to today's world.
We accept limits on the 1 st. Like yelling fire in a theater.
The second is similar except there is a specific effort to degrade or remove it.
I tend not to concede much of anything on the second because I belive the slippery slope is a real and present danger.
Besides, you do realize that school shootings are so rare as to almost be a statistical anonamlie ?
The money we are talking about spending for this threat could, arguably, fund other more hazardous issues with more effect on our children's safety.
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  #57  
Old 05-16-2018, 06:40 PM
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even in the Wild West there were Sheriffs that wouldn't let you carry side arms in town...it is nothing new really...stay outta town
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  #58  
Old 05-16-2018, 06:44 PM
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Besides, you do realize that school shootings are so rare as to almost be a statistical anonamlie ?
The money we are talking about spending for this threat could, arguably, fund other more hazardous issues with more effect on our children's safety.
Truth be told, cell phones are the cause of more teen deaths, along with deaths of others, than all these school shootings combined, yet lawmakers want to restrict anyone under 21 from buying a rifle or shotgun ? But a 16yr old can have a cellphone while driving ? And while it might be against the law for them to use said phone, we know that doesn't deter them, just like the teenager recently charged with killing two adults and a child in Woodstock, cause she was looking at her phone and didn't seem them in a crosswalk. But watch the liberals heads explode if you try to restrict anyone under 21 from getting a cellphone ? Even anyone under 18 ?

Smart phones,, stupid people,,,,

Our government has some messed up ways of looking at things, its a constitutional right to be armed, but bottom line is we all know there are people out there who should never be trusted with a firearm, just like there are people who should never drive a car on the interstate,,,,, but they still do, its too bad Darwins theory of natural selection isn't more consistent and accurate !
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  #59  
Old 05-16-2018, 09:06 PM
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/li...MFu?li=BBnb7Kz

this is what Well Regulated will do for you
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  #60  
Old 05-16-2018, 09:07 PM
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As a teacher, it is kinda sad to see the opinion of teachers these days. I am a CTAE teacher, what used to be called a vocational teacher. I was hired out of industry and teach Automotive Technology. A mechanic, technician, grease monkey, take your pick. There are several guys like me at my school. I suspect most high schools with a CTAE dept. has ordinary guys like myself....like you guys. Trust me when I say we don't follow the mold of ordinary teachers.

Personally, I grew up with a gun in my hands. Fired tens of thousands of rounds, and competed at 100, 600, and 1000 yards. Know my way around any gun I own, bed my own guns, do my own trigger work, work up a load that shoots bug holes, and stay out to the wee hours of the morning hunting coyotes with thermal and night vision with the welding teacher who teaches next to me at our school.

First, school carry should be strictly voluntary. I would volunteer to carry if my school district decided they wanted teachers to carry. Personally, I hope they do. I also support extensive training. Not necessarily range time and qualifying, though that should be integrated into the training, but serious, extensive training heavy on how to move room to room and clear a building as well as training in first aid and for traumatic injuries. Our local PD does active shooter training on a regular basis. I would like to see teachers that carry, receive the same training.

I understand that the 2A should not be infringed. I get that, I really do. But with rights comes responsibility. Heavy, immense responsibility. Someone who wants to carry a gun among students simply because it is their right, worries me. Maybe it's just me, but I would want and welcome any training I could get my hands on and I can't understand why any other teacher would not want it as well. Teachers are responsible for your children, to me it would be irresponsible to turn us loose without training us at a very high level.

Just my thoughts.........
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  #61  
Old 05-16-2018, 09:15 PM
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^^^^^^^^ Very well said !

But unfortunately yourself and the welding instructor would not be the norm in most school systems, especially in those around the metro areas .
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  #62  
Old 05-16-2018, 10:45 PM
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and that fella is the one you want protecting your children
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  #63  
Old 05-17-2018, 01:09 AM
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Concealed carry people are some of the most law abiding in our country. They, as a class, are not a problem. When CCW permits are issued in an area crime goes down.
Gun free zones are, time after time, shown to be open hunting areas for bad guys.
A bad guy with a gun is often thwarted by a good guy confronting them. Armed or not.
Most school shooters have no training and are likely to be thwarted by the first person who confronts them in an aggressive manner.
So why don't we want teachers to be armed?
Even minimal training in function and application of force would be sufficient.
But the effect would probaly not be measurable because the threat is so insignificant. And because the threat is so small the accidents and poor choices will probaly be as high as the good done.
It's just another problem created by our overzealist press and their ability to sensationalize any issue.
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  #64  
Old 05-17-2018, 08:40 AM
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yotedawg thank you for that very well said and exactly what I have been trying to get across, I have been on a SWAT team for 28 years and it's not about just being able to shoot good its also all about tactics and lot and lots of training, I'm glad you got what I have been trying to say and you are the very type teacher I would like to see carrying a gun and yes your right your kind a few are far between
I wish there were more like you the liberalism that teachers and College professors and passing on to these young minds now a days is sickening
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  #65  
Old 05-17-2018, 09:55 AM
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yotedawg thank you for that very well said and exactly what I have been trying to get across, I have been on a SWAT team for 28 years and it's not about just being able to shoot good its also all about tactics and lot and lots of training, I'm glad you got what I have been trying to say and you are the very type teacher I would like to see carrying a gun and yes your right your kind a few are far between
I wish there were more like you the liberalism that teachers and College professors and passing on to these young minds now a days is sickening
You do realize that if the general populous was armed there would be very little need for SWAT on most LEO Agencies, right?
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  #66  
Old 05-17-2018, 10:39 AM
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You do realize that if the general populous was armed there would be very little need for SWAT on most LEO Agencies, right?
There's already very little need for SWAT.

If more californians owned AR15s at the time of the north hollywood shootout SWAT wouldn't even exist.
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  #67  
Old 05-18-2018, 08:30 AM
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if that was true there would be no need for special forces in the military and that will never happen, in some cases an armed citizen mage citizen that never been in the military or former Law Enforcement would not stand a chance yes there are people that are avid shooters and shooting competitors like my close friend Jessie Harrison that would really shine in a gun fight but they are not average citizens, I have no problem with any one thats mentally incompetent carrying a gun, I encourage it but I also very much encourage going to the range and learning how to use it, back in the day when the constitution was written most people had guns they had to have them to get food and survive today its a lot different environment ay be able to handle some situations but in dealing with terrorist and a lot of gang members and drug cartel you would not stand a chance because of the training they are now doing, there are a lot of citizens out there that are former military with combat experience that would do great dealing with that kind of element but the aver

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  #68  
Old 05-18-2018, 08:43 AM
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if that was true there would be no need for special forces in the military and that will never happen, in some cases an armed citizen may be able to handle some situations but in dealing with terrorist and a lot of gang members and drug cartel you would not stand a chance because of the training they are now doing
You grossly overestimate the value of your position and grossly underestimate the power of an armed citizenry.
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Old 05-18-2018, 08:52 AM
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if that was true there would be no need for special forces in the military and that will never happen, in some cases an armed citizen may be able to handle some situations but in dealing with terrorist and a lot of gang members and drug cartel you would not stand a chance because of the training they are now doing
most of them think since they are armed they are invincible. Most of them would use concealment for cover. Most of them can't move and shoot, all they practice is punching paper accurately. They do not practice stress management. Most of them would get shot entering a room. Most of them would hit the hostage instead of the intruder.....but hey...simply exercising their rights is enough.
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Old 05-18-2018, 08:57 AM
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yes there are people that are avid shooters and shooting competitors like my close friend Jessie Harrison that would really shine in a gun fight but they are not average citizens, I have no problem with any one thats mentally competent carrying a gun, I encourage it but I also very much encourage going to the range and learning how to use it, back in the day when the constitution was written most people had guns they had to have them to get food and survive today its a lot different environment, and like jester said shooting paper is one thing but shooting at something that can and will shoot back is a whole different thing and the level of stress is very high, I have seen regular patrol officers fold in high stress shooting situations thats why we have SWAT just like the regular military has special forces, I am not your enemy here this country has never been invaded because of all the armed citizens, in WWII the Japanese contemplated invading us and I think it was Yamamoto that said if you do there will be a rifle behind every blade of grass

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  #71  
Old 05-18-2018, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Jester896 View Post
most of them think since they are armed they are invincible. Most of them would use concealment for cover. Most of them can't move and shoot, all they practice is punching paper accurately. They do not practice stress management. Most of them would get shot entering a room. Most of them would hit the hostage instead of the intruder.....but hey...simply exercising their rights is enough.
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Originally Posted by pdsniper View Post
yes there are people that are avid shooters and shooting competitors like my close friend Jessie Harrison that would really shine in a gun fight but they are not average citizens, I have no problem with any one thats mentally incompetent carrying a gun, I encourage it but I also very much encourage going to the range and learning how to use it, back in the day when the constitution was written most people had guns they had to have them to get food and survive today its a lot different environment ay be able to handle some situations but in dealing with terrorist and a lot of gang members and drug cartel you would not stand a chance because of the training they are now doing, there are a lot of citizens out there that are former military with combat experience that would do great dealing with that kind of element but the aver
You boys are still thinking and responding in single citizen terms.

I clearly stated from the beginning "an Armed Citizenry".

That has definitively different implications as to the short sited training scenarios you are referencing.

I know it's a stretch, but think outside of the box. Imagine one bad guy pulling a gun and thirty citizens around him pulling theirs in response.

The 2nd Amendment was written for multiple reasons, none of them had anything to do with SWAT, LEO's or SpecOps.

You can pose it however you wish, but the fact remains; "An armed society is a polite society" ~ Robert A. Heinlein.
Mr. Heinlein was no stranger to good guys vs bad guys and I'm sure that his 4 years at the USN Academy gave him adequate insight as to the difference in individual training and response vs mass threat reduction via a demanding hostile environment intent on keeping the peace.
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Old 05-18-2018, 10:10 AM
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very familiar with those words of wisdom Ben Franklin first said it and I'm also very Familiar with the Navy as well spent 6 years working with SEAL team 2 in little creek VA
and what your talking about has already happened in Texas with Stephen Willeford and Johnnie Langendorff,Willeford who was an NRA shooting instructor
confronted and killed the dirt bag that shot all those people in that small church in Texas and kept him from killing others , perfect example of what your talking about and also a perfect example of what I have been talking about as well, being well trained
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  #73  
Old 05-18-2018, 10:13 AM
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There seems to be a few on here who have a chip on their shoulder towards LE ?

The real world truth is the average armed citizen can be an asset against your average thug or criminal, and that may be all that is needed ? because your average street criminal has little to no training with a firearm anyway.

But change the story to someone who has taken a hostage, and maybe they have served in the military in a combat role, maybe they have some mental issues ? Maybe they are wacked out on some illicit substance? and their actions are extremely erratic ? That is where highly trained SWAT members are necessary. If someone has taken your wife or daughter hostage and is holding a gun to their head , do you really want average Joe with a gun permit to intervene ?

Your average citizen, CCW permit and armed or not, does not have an aggressive mindset, most people are simply non-confrontational, especially when it comes to violence, most cannot even adequately defend themselves in a fist fight ! Its simply not something they practice or prepare for, or have any past experience with, same thing with a gun fight, world of difference between shooting at targets and shooting at something that shoots back !

As far as thinking outside the box, the odds of finding 30 armed citizens in one spot against a bad guy with a gun is virtually impossible, unless the bad guy is trying to rob a gun range, I would be willing to bet in most public places outside the city, you won't find more than two or three people actually carrying, and you'd be lucky if one of them is actually proficient with their firearm.
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  #74  
Old 05-18-2018, 10:19 AM
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As far as thinking outside the box, the odds of finding 30 armed citizens in one spot against a bad guy with a gun is virtually impossible,
Again, I proposed a complete armed citizenry as the 2nd amendment allows vs what many on here want to restrict contrary to the 2nd amendment.

I am truly sorry you folks can't see the crux of what I am saying and choose instead to relegate our future to cowering behind the fear created and propagated by man and restrictive legislation that creates these scenario's.

Now you are interpreting my suggestions as animosity towards LE?

More government has never solved anything.

I'm done here, you are constrained by your own lack of understanding of what could be, if government would just get out of the way.
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Old 05-18-2018, 10:47 AM
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Again, I proposed a complete armed citizenry as the 2nd amendment allows vs what many on here want to restrict contrary to the 2nd amendment.

I am truly sorry you folks can't see the crux of what I am saying and choose instead to relegate our future to cowering behind the fear created and propagated by man and restrictive legislation that creates these scenario's.

Now you are interpreting my suggestions as animosity towards LE?

More government has never solved anything.

I'm done here, you are constrained by your own lack of understanding of what could be, if government would just get out of the way.

You summed it up perfectly in one sentence. More government never solved anything! The fact that so called conservatives cave to that in any way baffles me. Id rather have a 100 pound shaky handed 30 year old teacher thats has 38 in her purse teaching my kids than 200 pound mma fighter. Shes got a chance to protect my kids hes got nothing.
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