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  #251  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by welderguy View Post
Do an honest study on it with an open mind to receive true knowledge.
I don't have time to do it for you. You wouldn't listen to me anyhow, you never have before.
I have.
The study leads me to believe that Jesus did not fulfull what was required based off of the evidence that I presented to you above.

When I offer you the chance to take your claim and dazzle me with evidence that backs up your claim you bow out.
Typical
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  #252  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:48 AM
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I have.
The study leads me to believe that Jesus did not fulfull what was required based off of the evidence that I presented to you above.

When I offer you the chance to take your claim and dazzle me with evidence that backs up your claim you bow out.
Typical
I can't help you. Sorry.
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  #253  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by welderguy View Post
I can't help you. Sorry.
Are you able to stop the unverifiable claims?
Why constantly post things that you know you do not posess the knowledge and more importantly facts to back them up?
Help would be providing those things and why you cannot help.
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  #254  
Old 07-17-2017, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by bullethead View Post
Are you able to stop the unverifiable claims?
Why constantly post things that you know you do not posess the knowledge and more importantly facts to back them up?
Help would be providing those things and why you cannot help.
Just do this one thing for me,ok.

Tell me how it was foretold the exact time that Cyrus was born, his name, the exact time he would begin to rule, what he would accomplish during his reign, and the exact time he would decree to rebuild the temple at Jerusalem.

Secular history alone supports all this as precisely fulfilled.

Do you know the odds of all of it coming true exactly as prophecied?
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  #255  
Old 07-17-2017, 12:24 PM
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Just do this one thing for me,ok.

Tell me how it was foretold the exact time that Cyrus was born, his name, the exact time he would begin to rule, what he would accomplish during his reign, and the exact time he would decree to rebuild the temple at Jerusalem.

Secular history alone supports all this as precisely fulfilled.

Do you know the odds of all of it coming true exactly as prophecied?
Show me where this written/foretold.
Show me where secular history supports it.
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  #256  
Old 07-17-2017, 12:39 PM
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Read this welder.
https://infidels.org/library/modern/.../prophecy.html
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  #257  
Old 07-17-2017, 12:42 PM
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A story comes to mind when fulfilled prophesy is written afterwards.
“While traveling through a forest, a person noticed a circle marked on a tree with an arrow shot perfectly into the center. A few yards away he noticed several more targets, each with arrows in the center. Later, he met the talented archer and he asked him, "How did you become such an expert that you always get your arrows into the center of the bull's-eye?" "It's not difficult," responded the archer, "First I shoot the arrow and then I draw the circle."
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  #258  
Old 07-17-2017, 12:47 PM
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And lets not forget that Isaiah was written by at least two different writers.
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  #259  
Old 07-17-2017, 12:57 PM
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Let me help you, I see you're struggling a little.
Isaiah (740 BC-681BC)
Cyrus the great, born in 590BC.

Isaiah prophecied of Cyrus BEFORE he was born.
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  #260  
Old 07-17-2017, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by welderguy View Post
Let me help you, I see you're struggling a little.
Isaiah (740 BC-681BC)
Cyrus the great, born in 590BC.

Isaiah prophecied of Cyrus BEFORE he was born.
Yes I was struggling a little, this cleared it up.

"Modern scholarship considers the Book of Isaiah to be an anthology, the two principal compositions of which are the Book of Isaiah proper (chapters 1-39, with some exceptions), containing the words of the prophet Isaiah himself, dating from the time of the First Temple, around 700 BCE, and Second Isaiah (Deutero-Isaiah, chapters 40-66), comprising the words of an anonymous prophet, who lived some one hundred and fifty years later, around the time of the Babylonian exile and the restoration of the Temple in the Persian Period. By the time our Isaiah Scroll was copied (the last third of the second century BCE), the book was already regarded as a single composition.

If so, no miracles or prophecies are required to explain the mention of Cyrus in the Book of Isaiah: Chapter 45, where his name is mentioned, was originally written during the time of Cyrus's rule."
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  #261  
Old 07-17-2017, 02:01 PM
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All but the most conservative scholars now accept the hypothesis put forward by Doederlein . . . that the prophecies contained in chapters 40-66 of the book of Isaiah are not the words of the eighth-century prophet Isaiah but come from a later time.” (The New Century Bible Commentary notes)
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  #262  
Old 07-17-2017, 02:09 PM
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All but the most conservative scholars now accept the hypothesis put forward by Doederlein . . . that the prophecies contained in chapters 40-66 of the book of Isaiah are not the words of the eighth-century prophet Isaiah but come from a later time. (The New Century Bible Commentary notes)
Since you reject Isaiah, how about the account of Cyrus in the book of Daniel then?
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  #263  
Old 07-17-2017, 02:15 PM
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"God has a plan" on what evidence? The world I see is exactly what I would expect of a world with no plan.
I presume that because this picture shows a starving, dying child with a buzzard behind it you are meaning there is no plan because an all mighty God would not let this happen?
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  #264  
Old 07-17-2017, 02:28 PM
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Since you reject Isaiah, how about the account of Cyrus in the book of Daniel then?
I reject that too

Welder what is your criteria for something being prophetic?

Would you care to explain all the unfulfilled prophecies in both Isaiah and Daniel that even biblical scholars cannot make cases for?
In your opinion why do you think these writers are spot on accurate in one prediction and miss by so far in the next?
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  #265  
Old 07-17-2017, 02:50 PM
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I reject that too

Welder what is your criteria for something being prophetic?

Would you care to explain all the unfulfilled prophecies in both Isaiah and Daniel that even biblical scholars cannot make cases for?
In your opinion why do you think these writers are spot on accurate in one prediction and miss by so far in the next?
Can you give me specifics?
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  #266  
Old 07-17-2017, 02:53 PM
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I presume that because this picture shows a starving, dying child with a buzzard behind it you are meaning there is no plan because an all mighty God would not let this happen?
I won't speak for Atlas, but for myself, I have internalized the concept that a God might create a child to starve to death and be eaten alive by vultures. A God CAN do whatever it wants to. I have also internalized the notion that a God might have a plan for that child's suffering that He keeps a mystery from us. I also internalize the notion that such a Being could make people for the expressed purpose of sending their eternal souls to He11 for eternity even if they lived good lives.

I have internalized that a God can do whatever it wants.

If such a being exists I refuse to acknowledge or worship it. That is all.
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  #267  
Old 07-17-2017, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by welderguy View Post
Can you give me specifics?
All I have given you are specifics.
I am dying for you to provide something, anything specifoc that backs up your claims.
You cite that secular history backs up the prophecy.
No, it doesnt, rhe bible backs up the bible.

Here is a link that provides specifics regarding timelines in the book of Daniel and the events that you say it accurately predicted.
http://www.bibleorigins.net/DanielFa...pheciesOf.html
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  #268  
Old 07-17-2017, 02:58 PM
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I won't speak for Atlas, but for myself, I have internalized the concept that a God might create a child to starve to death and be eaten alive by vultures. A God CAN do whatever it wants to. I have also internalized the notion that a God might have a plan for that child's suffering that He keeps a mystery from us. I also internalize the notion that such a Being could make people for the expressed purpose of sending their eternal souls to He11 for eternity even if they lived good lives.

I have internalized that a God can do whatever it wants.

If such a being exists I refuse to acknowledge or worship it. That is all.
Yep.
And a good reason why for tens of thousands of years people tailor the gods they invent to suit.
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  #269  
Old 07-17-2017, 03:11 PM
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Do you with children punish them, whip them? Did you parents whip you? Does that mean you have no care for them at all? No love for them at all? Have any of y'all ever punished your child because they were in the wrong, even though another child put them in the position to be in the wrong?
My God does not wish for pain or suffering nor for anyone to die and go to He!!. I have learned that it would take an intervention with God himself for several before they would believe and not have doubt. All I can offer is what he has done for me, brought me through and out of and say a prayer for ya. It is y'alls choice where ya sit in the end, smoking or non smoking.

Think about this, the little kid IMO is still innocent and as well IMO will be in heaven. I agree it is pitiful and heartbreaking. Could someone along the way 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 50 years ago have done something different, something that the Lord had told them to do yet failed to do it made a difference in that kids life today? Are you so sure God did not have a plan yet someone along the way got out of Gods Will, disobeyed him and in turn this is the effect from that.
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  #270  
Old 07-17-2017, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by j_seph View Post
Do you with children punish them, whip them? Did you parents whip you? Does that mean you have no care for them at all? No love for them at all? Have any of y'all ever punished your child because they were in the wrong, even though another child put them in the position to be in the wrong?
My God does not wish for pain or suffering nor for anyone to die and go to He!!. I have learned that it would take an intervention with God himself for several before they would believe and not have doubt. All I can offer is what he has done for me, brought me through and out of and say a prayer for ya. It is y'alls choice where ya sit in the end, smoking or non smoking.

Think about this, the little kid IMO is still innocent and as well IMO will be in heaven. I agree it is pitiful and heartbreaking. Could someone along the way 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 50 years ago have done something different, something that the Lord had told them to do yet failed to do it made a difference in that kids life today? Are you so sure God did not have a plan yet someone along the way got out of Gods Will, disobeyed him and in turn this is the effect from that.
If my child is hungry I feed him. I do not have someone else write my rule book and fill it with parables, contradictions and confusion in the hopes somebody reads it and feeds my child.

Are you sure the thing that you worship has the power to help that child at all? Or are you content passing the buck onto someone else 50 years earlier?
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  #271  
Old 07-17-2017, 03:44 PM
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Did African famine start before or after new testament in bible? How can a bible, written prior tell of things to come that is happening today?

Matthew 24:7
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Leviticus 26:1-2

1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God.

2 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord.

3 If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them;

4 Then I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.

5 And your threshing shall reach unto the vintage, and the vintage shall reach unto the sowing time: and ye shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.

6 And I will give peace in the land, and ye shall lie down, and none shall make you afraid: and I will rid evil beasts out of the land, neither shall the sword go through your land.

7 And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword.

8 And five of you shall chase an hundred, and an hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight: and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword.

9 For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you.

Read Deuteronomy 28

If you like reading here is something else
https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tool...black-horse-of
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  #272  
Old 07-17-2017, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by j_seph View Post
Do you with children punish them, whip them? Did you parents whip you? Does that mean you have no care for them at all? No love for them at all? Have any of y'all ever punished your child because they were in the wrong, even though another child put them in the position to be in the wrong?
My God does not wish for pain or suffering nor for anyone to die and go to He!!. I have learned that it would take an intervention with God himself for several before they would believe and not have doubt. All I can offer is what he has done for me, brought me through and out of and say a prayer for ya. It is y'alls choice where ya sit in the end, smoking or non smoking.

Think about this, the little kid IMO is still innocent and as well IMO will be in heaven. I agree it is pitiful and heartbreaking. Could someone along the way 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 50 years ago have done something different, something that the Lord had told them to do yet failed to do it made a difference in that kids life today? Are you so sure God did not have a plan yet someone along the way got out of Gods Will, disobeyed him and in turn this is the effect from that.
In your version of heaven does this kid look like he would in his healthy prime at an age in his mid 20s?
Does he look like does and at the age he is in the pic?
What are the images of all the dead in heaven? Does god clean em up sp that they are presentable?
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  #273  
Old 07-17-2017, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by j_seph View Post
Did African famine start before or after new testament in bible? How can a bible, written prior tell of things to come that is happening today?

Matthew 24:7
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Leviticus 26:1-2

1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God.

2 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord.

3 If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them;

4 Then I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.

5 And your threshing shall reach unto the vintage, and the vintage shall reach unto the sowing time: and ye shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.

6 And I will give peace in the land, and ye shall lie down, and none shall make you afraid: and I will rid evil beasts out of the land, neither shall the sword go through your land.

7 And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword.

8 And five of you shall chase an hundred, and an hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight: and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword.

9 For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you.

Read Deuteronomy 28

If you like reading here is something else
https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tool...black-horse-of
Famine has been around 100's of thousands of years before the bible.

The bible tells of these things because they are well known at the time of the writings. It predicts others and totally fabricates some.

Which is more impressive, shooting an arrow into a bullseye at an unknown distance or shooting an arrow into something and then drawing the the bullseye around the arrow?
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  #274  
Old 07-17-2017, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by bullethead View Post
In your version of heaven does this kid look like he would in his healthy prime at an age in his mid 20s?
Does he look like does and at the age he is in the pic?
What are the images of all the dead in heaven? Does god clean em up sp that they are presentable?
I will say this, if I am wrong which I am not in following Christ, being a born again Christian you get the last laugh I guess. However have you given serious thought to the consequences when you are told "I never knew you, depart from me" when you reach that point and have the remembrance of all who have forewarned you with a condemning conscience as you spend an eternity in HeII

1 Corinthians 15:44

41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
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  #275  
Old 07-17-2017, 04:26 PM
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I will say this, if I am wrong which I am not in following Christ, being a born again Christian you get the last laugh I guess. However have you given serious thought to the consequences when you are told "I never knew you, depart from me" when you reach that point and have the remembrance of all who have forewarned you with a condemning conscience as you spend an eternity in HeII

1 Corinthians 15:44

41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
This has been discussed many times but I will still indulge you.
Have you ever considered that we are both wrong?

Have you missed your own bible teachings that your god decides who follows him and who does not?

Is it posssible that neither you or I and certainly the authors of ancient texts are capable of understanding a being that operates in a realm so far above our capability? And if there actually is a god that is the reason humans disagree so widely..because everyone must make a version of that god to the specifications that they can understand which most likely are not anywhere close to what the real god is?

Is there one god, thousands of gods or none?

There is what you and I believe and what you and I know.
One of use is just fooling themself into thinking they know the unknowable.

Why do you constantly post the bible verses that you feel back up your point and ignore the ones that contradict?
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