Heaven and Free Will

atlashunter · May 8, 2012

BrettJ said:
About free will in heaven. If you want to sin in heaven with your free will you could. But like I said earlier there is no sin in heaven so you cant. Use your free will to breath under water. Just because you will to breath under water you cant. In heaven it will be much different because how can you will to do something that doesnt exist.

First you say you could then you say you can't. It's a poor analogy you make because there are physical limitations that prevent you from breathing water. Is there a similar limitation with respect to sin? What is sin? Is it not the choice to disobey God? What limitation could be put in place that would permit you to choose whether or not to obey (free will) while also denying you that choice?

mtnwoman · May 8, 2012

atlashunter said:
Whether you place a rattlesnake in your child's crib or whether you stand by and watch it enter on it's own with the full knowledge of the outcome makes little difference. Both constitute a choice on your part.

Who do you know that would do either?....and yes you are right, they are both the same....I wouldn't place a snake in my child's crib nor would I stand by and watch someone else do that......you would...really? Wow. I have more choices than that....????

atlashunter · May 8, 2012

mtnwoman said:
Who do you know that would do either?

The God of the bible.

mtnwoman · May 8, 2012

atlashunter said:
The God of the bible.

Tell me 'bout it.

mtnwoman · May 8, 2012

gemcgrew said:
A god that is not in control of everything is no God at all. And God doesn't make his choices by peeking into the future to see how things play out.

God Lord why don't you march out of step!!!????

'Nobody has said' that God peeks at anything....we know that He knows that He knows that He knows....you are the one that denys that He has power enough to do whatever He wants to do....that He is able to know and able to give free will and still know at the same time....Lordy

BrettJ · May 9, 2012

OK. One more time. There is no sin in heaven. Heaven is a holy place. There will be no desire to do someting the God will not want you to do. We will only want to worship God and be in his glory. When you just ate a 22oz steak, 5 lobster tails, 29 baked potatos, 16 salads and drank 3 gallons of water, do want to eat or drink any thing? Not likely. You are full and have your desires to eat and drink met to the fullest. You probably couldnt eat another bite. I know you could force yourself to try but you wont want to. In heaven you wont have your desires to sin met and be full from it but you just will not want to do it because you cant simply because sin does not exist in heaven. I guess it is hard to put into words because we can sin here on earth and we all do and it is so easy to do. It is also hard to imagine something that we know so well on earth will just not exist in heaven but it wont and I am so happy that I wont have to deal with it any more in heaven. If you are saved you will go to heaven. If you are worried about getting thrown out of heaven for sinning in heaven, stop. You wont. I am sorry that I am not smart enough to explain it better. Please just accept that there is no sin in heaven and when you get there you can ask God.

BrettJ · May 9, 2012

God created man so that man can love and worship God on his own free will. If God wanted to, He could make man worship and love Him but that is not real love. Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden and they love and worshiped God. Who wouldnt? They lived in the greatest place on earth. God let Satan enter in the garden and tempt Adam and Eve. They ate the apple and that ended the life of luxary and ease as the knew it. Why did God allow Satan to ruin this for them? God wanted them to still love and worship Him. Now with all the hardships the world had to offer made life a lot harder for them and all of us today. Now when God is loved and worshiped, He really gets free will love and worship because of who He is and not because he provides us with the Garden of Eden.

ambush80 · May 9, 2012

BrettJ said:
God created man so that man can love and worship God on his own free will. If God wanted to, He could make man worship and love Him but that is not real love. Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden and they love and worshiped God. Who wouldnt? They lived in the greatest place on earth. God let Satan enter in the garden and tempt Adam and Eve. They ate the apple and that ended the life of luxary and ease as the knew it. Why did God allow Satan to ruin this for them? God wanted them to still love and worship Him. Now with all the hardships the world had to offer made life a lot harder for them and all of us today. Now when God is loved and worshiped, He really gets free will love and worship because of who He is and not because he provides us with the Garden of Eden.

Like in Heaven?

ambush80 · May 9, 2012

When I read about what believers think Heaven is going to be like I just can't help but think what an injustice is to tell that stuff to a kid. My little girl trusts me so much. I can't see trying to get her to believe that an imaginary place is real. It seems so wrong.

gemcgrew · May 9, 2012

ambush80 said:
I can't see trying to get her to believe that an imaginary place is real. It seems so wrong.

I agree. That would be wrong.

stringmusic · May 9, 2012

ambush80 said:
Like in Heaven?

God doesn't force one to love Him or worship Him, that choice is made before a person gets to Heaven.

There is no sin in Heaven, the choice to go there gets made by accepting Jesus Christ while one is alive on this earth.

gemcgrew · May 9, 2012

mtnwoman said:
God Lord why don't you march out of step!!!????

I can't.

mtnwoman said:
you are the one that denys that He has power enough to do whatever He wants to do

You are the only person I know, that can read my comments, and draw that conclusion.

bullethead · May 9, 2012

BrettJ said:
OK. One more time. There is no sin in heaven. Heaven is a holy place. There will be no desire to do someting the God will not want you to do. We will only want to worship God and be in his glory. When you just ate a 22oz steak, 5 lobster tails, 29 baked potatos, 16 salads and drank 3 gallons of water, do want to eat or drink any thing? Not likely. You are full and have your desires to eat and drink met to the fullest. You probably couldnt eat another bite. I know you could force yourself to try but you wont want to. In heaven you wont have your desires to sin met and be full from it but you just will not want to do it because you cant simply because sin does not exist in heaven. I guess it is hard to put into words because we can sin here on earth and we all do and it is so easy to do. It is also hard to imagine something that we know so well on earth will just not exist in heaven but it wont and I am so happy that I wont have to deal with it any more in heaven. If you are saved you will go to heaven. If you are worried about getting thrown out of heaven for sinning in heaven, stop. You wont. I am sorry that I am not smart enough to explain it better. Please just accept that there is no sin in heaven and when you get there you can ask God.

Impressive for someone who has never been to heaven or has ever talked to God. I bet Heaven is EXACTLY as you want it to be, probably not a coincidence.

bullethead · May 9, 2012

stringmusic said:
God doesn't force one to love Him or worship Him, that choice is made before a person gets to Heaven.

There is no sin in Heaven, the choice to go there gets made by accepting Jesus Christ while one is alive on this earth.

And yet so many people on earth are just convinced they are going to a heaven without even knowing who JC is, let alone accepting him. How did all the souls make it into heaven before JC?
Even when I was a solid Christian I never spoke for God or knew what Heaven looked like or how everyone acted and felt in heaven. Some Christians are very special to have all of this knowledge.

stringmusic · May 9, 2012

bullethead said:
And yet so many people on earth are just convinced they are going to a heaven without even knowing who JC is, let alone accepting him.

Your point?

How did all the souls make it into heaven before JC?

Faith.

Even when I was a solid Christian I never spoke for God or knew what Heaven looked like or how everyone acted and felt in heaven. Some Christians are very special to have all of this knowledge.

I didn't give a full explanation of Heaven, because I don't know all there is to know about it.

bullethead · May 9, 2012

stringmusic said:
Your point?

They have just as good of a shot to get into heaven as you do. They have done everything "right" according to their beliefs to ensure their place in heaven.

stringmusic said:
Faith.

Faith is no longer enough then, faith and acceptance of JC are the new requirements.
See my reply above.

stringmusic said:
I didn't give a full explanation of Heaven, because I don't know all there is to know about it.

Maybe you want to talk to BrettJ, he can fill you in on what you don't know because just from reading his posts I am convinced that he has an inside scoop on God and Heaven.

bullethead · May 9, 2012

BrettJ said:
God created man so that man can love and worship God on his own free will.

After eons and eons of time hovering in a place that is beyond human comprehension, God finally decided that he was lonely and NEEDED to create a creature that will love and worship him. God decided that the creature will have free will and does not have to worship him, but secretly at the end of that creatures life if it so chose not to worship God(and now his son too) that creature will burn for all eternity for carrying out God's will??????????????

Awesome line of thought.

StriperAddict · May 9, 2012

bullethead said:
Impressive for someone who has never been to heaven .....

.... but has read the book.

It would do many folks a world & eternity of good if they picked it up and saw these things for themselves. The bible makes heaven stand out in all its glory, but some would rater come here and ramble than to look at the scriptures for truth. :huh:

Heres some verses ...
Rev 21: 1-8

stringmusic · May 9, 2012

bullethead said:
They have just as good of a shot to get into heaven as you do. They have done everything "right" according to their beliefs to ensure their place in heaven.

Truth is exclusive, everybody can't be right.

Faith is no longer enough then, faith and acceptance of JC are the new requirements.

Faith and acceptance of Christ are one in the same.

bullethead · May 9, 2012

StriperAddict said:
.... but has read the book.

It would do many folks a world & eternity of good if they picked it up and saw these things for themselves. The bible makes heaven stand out in all its glory, but some would rater come here and ramble than to look at the scriptures for truth.

Heres some verses ...
Rev 21: 1-8

I know it is inconceivable to think that others HAVE read the book, MANY MANY MANY times over and have come to different conclusions than you, but yes, it happens.

Heaven and Free Will

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Member

Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Of the hard cast variety

Of the hard cast variety

Senior Member

Of the hard cast variety

Of the hard cast variety

Senior Member

Senior Member

Of the hard cast variety

Similar threads

Share this page