"Jesus needed them more"

Miguel Cervantes

Jedi Master
Quick on answers, short on thought, typical Ritchie reply.
Ritchie, the aaa's include atheists, agnostics and apologetics. You are saying that all three don't like personal testimoney. Well thought out.

"Their" go to card is a good card indeed. You use personal testimony as proof of your god and in the next breath dismiss personal testimony as proof of another god. If it is proof of one it is proof of all. If it is not acceptable for all it cannot be accepted for one.

I would wonder why is there a little boy specter roaming the halls and rooms of a hospital. He is not in heaven, he is not in h3ll. He seems to be between realms. How does seeing an apparition automatically give credence to a particular diety?

The AAs that use those questions have yet to be refuted, that is why the card is so good.
Run it till they stop it.
I've never understood why the powers that be here on GON chose to lump Apologetics in with Atheist and Agnostics. I suppose that same person thinks Mormons are space ship flying devil worshipers as well???:huh:
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
I've never understood why the powers that be here on GON chose to lump Apologetics in with Atheist and Agnostics. I suppose that same person thinks Mormons are space ship flying devil worshipers as well???:huh:

Possibly for balance. I enjoy the input the feedback. I learn from the apologists.
 

atlashunter

Senior Member
OK hop along repudiate the mans testimony then. You people don't believe anybody. Don't be a one legged duck either.

No need to really. You assume only the supernatural can explain those things. I don't.
 

atlashunter

Senior Member
"Jesus needed them more"

Without getting into why would God/Jesus/The Great Spaghetti Monster "need" anyone if he/she/it is an all-powerful god, let me tell you a story about my ex-wife.

She was raised Catholic, in France, her home country. She's from a small village in the Champagne region, in the north of France near the German border.

When she was seven years old, a girl from a neighboring village was abducted, raped, and essentially tortured to death. Being upset by these events (my ex-wife, a seven year old girl), her mother took her to the village church to speak to the priest. After hearing her pour heart out and her fears, he told it was God's will.

That was the day when she stopped believing and became very much against organized religion, to the point that I had to walk her out of several family/friend weddings and funerals.

She decided then and there that if that was "God's will" then she no longer wanted to be associated with a church, or any church, that worshiped such a being.

Telling someone "it's God's will" or "Jesus needed them more" is simply trying to pacify them. If that gets you through the pain, then fine, but the truth is the world is a dirty, nasty place and everyone is responsible for their own actions. Sometimes you can do everything right and still get hosed.

:clap:
 

SemperFiDawg

Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
Every time he throws out the "intellectually dishonest" bit it just makes me laugh.

I wasn't the one who initially threw it out if you noticed. Guess it's not just me.
 

oldfella1962

Senior Member
It's possible the person saying this actually does believe it. Many Christians do believe everything is controlled by God.
Satan did have run it by God to mess with Job.

The Word was with God from the beginning. Therefore the purpose for the Word was in place or in God's word/mind from the beginning.
We've actually had this discussion concerning the death of Jesus on the religious forum.

It's a tough discussion.

A little off topic (or maybe not) but what exactly does the phrase "the word was with god from the beginning" mean?" :huh: does this mean literally written words or some other definite record keeping to be passed along to tell the stories, or what?
 

atlashunter

Senior Member

hummerpoo

Gone but not forgotten
A little off topic (or maybe not) but what exactly does the phrase "the word was with god from the beginning" mean?" :huh: does this mean literally written words or some other definite record keeping to be passed along to tell the stories, or what?

Google "John 1:2 Commentary"
You will get plenty.
It's important to read several to get a broader understanding.
I haven't looked, but would say that looking a John 1:1, in most of the commentaries would be helpful; if you stay with it John 1:4 will add even more.

Biblegateway and Biblehub are sure to show up and they will have a selection of commentaries.
 

j_seph

Senior Member
A little off topic (or maybe not) but what exactly does the phrase "the word was with god from the beginning" mean?" :huh: does this mean literally written words or some other definite record keeping to be passed along to tell the stories, or what?
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Word is refering to Jesus

1:1 In the beginning - (Referring to #Gen 1:1|, and Prov 8:23.) When all things began to be made by the Word: in the beginning of heaven and earth, and this whole frame of created beings, the Word existed, without any beginning. He was when all things began to be, whatsoever had a beginning. The Word - So termed #Psa 33:6|, and frequently by the seventy, and in the Chaldee paraphrase. So that St. John did not borrow this expression from Philo, or any heathen writer. He was not yet named Jesus, or Christ. He is the Word whom the Father begat or spoke from eternity; by whom the Father speaking, maketh all things; who speaketh the Father to us. We have, in #John 1:18|, both a real description of the Word, and the reason why he is so called. He is the only begotten Son of the Father, who is in the bosom of the Father, and hath declared him. And the Word was with God - Therefore distinct from God the Father. The word rendered with, denotes a perpetual tendency as it were of the Son to the Father, in unity of essence. He was with God alone; because nothing beside God had then any being. And the Word was God - Supreme, eternal, independent. There was no creature, in respect of which he could be styled God in a relative sense. Therefore he is styled so in the absolute sense. The Godhead of the Messiah being clearly revealed in the Old Testament, (#Jer 23:7|; Hos 1:6; #Psa 23:1|,) the other evangelists aim at this, to prove that Jesus, a true man, was the Messiah. But when, at length, some from hence began to doubt of his Godhead, then St. John expressly asserted it, and wrote in this book as it were a supplement to the Gospels, as in the Revelation to the prophets.
 

oldfella1962

Senior Member
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Word is refering to Jesus

1:1 In the beginning - (Referring to #Gen 1:1|, and Prov 8:23.) When all things began to be made by the Word: in the beginning of heaven and earth, and this whole frame of created beings, the Word existed, without any beginning. He was when all things began to be, whatsoever had a beginning. The Word - So termed #Psa 33:6|, and frequently by the seventy, and in the Chaldee paraphrase. So that St. John did not borrow this expression from Philo, or any heathen writer. He was not yet named Jesus, or Christ. He is the Word whom the Father begat or spoke from eternity; by whom the Father speaking, maketh all things; who speaketh the Father to us. We have, in #John 1:18|, both a real description of the Word, and the reason why he is so called. He is the only begotten Son of the Father, who is in the bosom of the Father, and hath declared him. And the Word was with God - Therefore distinct from God the Father. The word rendered with, denotes a perpetual tendency as it were of the Son to the Father, in unity of essence. He was with God alone; because nothing beside God had then any being. And the Word was God - Supreme, eternal, independent. There was no creature, in respect of which he could be styled God in a relative sense. Therefore he is styled so in the absolute sense. The Godhead of the Messiah being clearly revealed in the Old Testament, (#Jer 23:7|; Hos 1:6; #Psa 23:1|,) the other evangelists aim at this, to prove that Jesus, a true man, was the Messiah. But when, at length, some from hence began to doubt of his Godhead, then St. John expressly asserted it, and wrote in this book as it were a supplement to the Gospels, as in the Revelation to the prophets.

Clear as mud now! :confused:
 
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