ambush80
Senior Member
There are different ways to know "what's going on". We can talk about green as a wavelength. The description of the wavelength read by an instrument will appear the same for all of us. Arguing against it would be silly.
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Is the atheistic view/belief/reality that there is free-will? - Thx.
- Thread starter RegularJoe
- Start date
There are different ways to know "what's going on". We can talk about green as a wavelength. The description of the wavelength read by an instrument will appear the same for all of us. Arguing against it would be silly.
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
RegularJoe
Senior Member
Concur that an agnostic subscribes to no 'view of life.'
WaltL1
Senior Member
Could you define what you mean by "no view of life"?
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
What do you mean by "view of life "?
RegularJoe
Senior Member
.
'View of life,' for me
(am not saying what it oughta be for others)
described with a broad sorta brush would be my combined most current to date view on:
1. How come i am here?
2. What do i think i am doing here?
3. Even :- ), what is 'here?'
4. Etc.
How would y'all broadly (or narrowly
define 'view of life?'
Thus, Walt, to reply, Sir, specifically, to your above Q,
i'd say that by 'no view of life'
i am saying *that a person chooses/simply determines to not define much or any of the above.
How come i have commented previously that an agnostic chooses / determines to not subscribe to any particular 'view of life?'
Simply cause most dictionaries define agnostic as "non-committal" and "undogmatic."
i'd add that, it has been my experience, that most thoughtful agnostics have developed a rational understanding as to why their view is logically non-committal/undogmatic.
Walt - Permit me to 1st comment on Bullet's related Q, "What do you mean by "view of life'?"
'View of life,' for me
(am not saying what it oughta be for others)
described with a broad sorta brush would be my combined most current to date view on:
1. How come i am here?
2. What do i think i am doing here?
3. Even :- ), what is 'here?'
4. Etc.
How would y'all broadly (or narrowly
define 'view of life?'Thus, Walt, to reply, Sir, specifically, to your above Q,
i'd say that by 'no view of life'
i am saying *that a person chooses/simply determines to not define much or any of the above.
How come i have commented previously that an agnostic chooses / determines to not subscribe to any particular 'view of life?'
Simply cause most dictionaries define agnostic as "non-committal" and "undogmatic."
i'd add that, it has been my experience, that most thoughtful agnostics have developed a rational understanding as to why their view is logically non-committal/undogmatic.
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WaltL1
Senior Member
I think, I guess, kinda, in a broad sense I would have to agree..
Walt - Permit me to 1st comment on Bullet's related Q, "What do you mean by "view of life'?"
'View of life,' for me
(am not saying what it oughta be for others)
described with a broad sorta brush would be my combined most current to date view on:
1. How come i am here?
2. What do i think i am doing here?
3. Even :- ), what is 'here?'
4. Etc.
How would y'all broadly (or narrowly
Thus, Walt, to reply, Sir, specifically, to your above Q,
i'd say that by 'no view of life'
i am saying *that a person chooses/simply determines to not define much or any of the above.
How come i have commented previously that an agnostic chooses / determines to not subscribe to any particular 'view of life?'
Simply cause most dictionaries define agnostic as "non-committal" and "undogmatic."
i'd add that, it has been my experience, that most thoughtful agnostics have developed a rational understanding as to why their view is logically non-committal/undogmatic.
I think we (I) have asked ourselves many of those same questions as above but for some we (I) more or less say "I don't know" which is pretty non-committal. Although I guess one could also be committed to "I don't know" until further discovery etc.
On the flip side one could take "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" as a/one view of life in a generic (no god/God involved) form etc.
And one could also answer in very non-philosophical ways -
1. How come i am here?
Because my parents reproduced.
2. What do i think i am doing here?
Whatever I decide my purpose is.
3. Even :- ), what is 'here?'
Earth.
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
If ya live to be a happy and healthy 100 yrs old it is not a lot of time.
Enjoy your time with family and friends and treat others as you would want to be treated yourself.
Enjoy your time with family and friends and treat others as you would want to be treated yourself.
RegularJoe
Senior Member
Yup ... i could see that working well for some folks.
WaltL1
Senior Member
To me it is interesting that life is basically exactly the same for people that it works for and for people that it doesn't work for.
BOTH -
go to work
have family
hunt or fish or whatever hobbies
pay taxes
etc. etc.
The ONLY difference is whatever satisfies you MENTALLY.
Some folks just NEED for there to be more to it than what there is.
We hear very frequently that the A/A point of view is lacking because "it doesn't answer anything".
Actually it does, its just not acceptable to those who NEED for there to be some greater philosophical answer/reason/purpose.
ambush80
Senior Member
That's the interesting part to me. I tend to be introspective and I do allot of self examination and I like to try to recognize the breadcrumbs that have taken me to one intellectual/spiritual place or another. I like to hear about other people's trails of breadcrumbs, too.
RegularJoe
Senior Member
i do, as well.
i enjoy learning from others' trails of breadcrumbs.
660griz
Senior Member
Maybe you mean a choice you 'will' make?
ambush80
Senior Member
"Can" examines the possibility of freewill. "Will" implies the absence of it.
It's a challenge put forth.
oldfella1962
Senior Member
good way to phrase it! We have a will, but that will still interacts within the framework of society/evolution/laws of physics/etc. And no doubt humans (and many other animals) are a product of nature and nurture and who know what other "x factors" exist. There are countless ways your "free will" decisions can play out, but not an infinite number of ways. The universe can adjust (in real time) quite well to your decisions, and there really are very few absolutely "good" or "bad" decisions in life that cannot be adjusted to or improvised around, with the possible exception of making Caddy Shack II. Just my 2 cents.
ambush80
Senior Member
Although I doubt that the debate has, at any time, swung far enough to one side or the other to have been called a consensus, there have been swings, among scholars and laymen alike, over time that could be called a preference for one side or the other. Given that, what I think would be interesting would be to make a study of those swings over a given period of time (500yrs., 1000 yrs., 2000 yrs.) with the objective of determining which swings were led by philosophy, physics, theology, and maybe other disciplines. But that's just an idea for others to consider since, even if I had the facility to do the work, I could not reasonable expect to complete such a study in this lifetime.
red neck richie
Senior Member
Not true. I had no need for anything. And I can assure you I wasn't looking for anything Mentally. I wasn't indoctrinated or raised in church. I came to my own conclusion through my own life experiences. I think some people get caught up in a vision or what the world tells them that they lose the ability to have an open mind and find out for yourself. I don't think I have A specific purpose and I'm not seeking one. But I do believe in creation and GOD almighty. I cant prove it to you but you cant prove me wrong. In fact I bet most Christians would consider me a heathen. But I bet they haven't had the spiritual experiences I have had.
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Artfuldodger
Senior Member
From an Atheist standpoint, if free will is an illusion, is the opposite still predestination?
A person who believes in a higher being can determine that God has predestined. I guess an Atheist free will believer could say as Oldfella in post 162. That even without predestination, there still isn't freewill?
I think that is what he is saying. That there are a host of things going on that would keep someone from having free will even without predestination.
A person who believes in a higher being can determine that God has predestined. I guess an Atheist free will believer could say as Oldfella in post 162. That even without predestination, there still isn't freewill?
I think that is what he is saying. That there are a host of things going on that would keep someone from having free will even without predestination.
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