Smokepole Shooters: Opinions Needed!!!

Well I started another thread but it has turned into more of a centerfire discussion and per request I decided to start a new thread for my muzzleloader question. This is copied straight from the other thread:"I have the in-line but I really want to pick up a more traditional black powder. I'm not sure if I want to go with a percussion or flintlock so what are the advantages/disadvantages? And also who are some good manufacturers of these rifles? And does anyone still make DIY kits?"
thanks for any help!!!

If you really want to go traditional, get a flintlock. As far as advantages/disadvantages they are about the same, other than with a caplock you don't have a little explosion going off right next to your face. It can be a little disconserting. The other thing to remember with a flintlock is that you have to hold the gun still until the main charge goes off. That can also be hard due to the little explosion mentioned above.

To answer the question about kits, yes, they still make them.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=544506

as far as the kits go, how hard are they to assemble and what tools are needed? i am limited as to what i will be able to do since i will be assembling this while i am away at school (i live way off campus so it is legal). i'm not really concerned with the little explosions you mentioned since this is not going to be my primary hunting gun... i don't think. also who makes complete guns that are nice? i know i've seen a few members on here with very nice guns and would really like to know what manufacturer theirs are but i can't think of their names...

With out question the best Hawkin' style front loaders is Thompson Center. They set the standard for reproductions and still make the best. I have had a percussion Hawkin' for over 30 years, and it is still a great shooter!

Lyman, T\C, Pedersoli, Traditions, are all good choices. If you are lookin` for authenticity, the Lyman Great Plains Rifle is a dead ringer for an original St. Louis Hawken Rifle. The T\C Hawken might be a little stronger built, but looks nothin` like an original Hawken.

With a little tinkerin` a good flintlock can have almost as fast a locktime as a percussion rifle, although the shooter might not can tell. It`s really a personal choice. I have both, and I prefer the flintlock. You won`t go wrong with either one, long as the rifle is a good quality firearm.

There are many kits out there, from the just finish and slap em together to the much more work needed type. Mainly it depends on how much you want to spend.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/default.php?cPath=22_162&osCsid=f2c406b8b811fa7f48d9a3fac12cff32

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(trutq3arnwk0em45ulsruv55))/categories/catList.aspx?catID=13

I like the flintlock myself and I can't tell if mine is any slower than my sons percussion, if it is it would be a matter of tuning the lock a bit to make it the same. My son has the CVA Bobcat, got it at Wal Mart for $65, 50 cal percussion gun. I have a Traditions Deerhunter flintlock in 50cal, got at K Mart for $140. I'd not have an issue hunting with either of them using patched round ball.

The advantage that I see for the percussion is the simplicity and reliability. It's just a bit easier to rely on the cap instead of flint and priming the pan for a flintlock. Especially for someone who doesn't shoot alot or hasn't done so enough. A well tuned flintlock with either, good rain gutters and a tight frizzen, or a well designed lock cover will be as reliable as you would need in anything short of a gullywasher and they will fire in any attitude.

One thing, do not let anyone get close on the lock side of a flinter. The kids down the street came over and shot my flinter in the back and one of them was young and unsteady so his uncle got in close and helped steady the rifle. Only before I could open my mouth and tell him not to get on the lock side he had already gotten an armful of hot powder. He was so happy to actually shoot the thing he said it was well worth the pain and would do it all over again BUT be forewarned. It's kinda like forgettin the crisco over the ball on a percussion revolver, you wont ever make that mistake again!!!

tv_racin_fan said:

I like the flintlock myself and I can't tell if mine is any slower than my sons percussion, if it is it would be a matter of tuning the lock a bit to make it the same. My son has the CVA Bobcat, got it at Wal Mart for $65, 50 cal percussion gun. I have a Traditions Deerhunter flintlock in 50cal, got at K Mart for $140. I'd not have an issue hunting with either of them using patched round ball.

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yeah I had seen the traditions deerhunter and it looks to be a pretty good rifle, I just want something a little more traditional. I already have a modern BP so I'm going for something new to try my hand at.

I'd say if you already have an in-line the flintlock would be the way to go for something really traditional. A sidelock percusion Hawkins would get you halfway there, but in your shooting it, it wouldn't be that much difference between it and the modern inline - more of a style difference than anything else - to me.

Most of the kits you can buy can be completed using small hand tools (chisels, gouges, sandpaper) or using a Dremel. With flinters a really good lock is probably the most important thing. A good lock requires the right hardness of the frizen and the right geometry of the hammer to get a consistent hot spark. Lyman has a good reputation as does Dixie Gun Works. From looking at DGW website they're selling mostly Pedersoli Kits, but you could assemble your own kit from individual parts from DGW, but that would require more work on your part.

Spend a few dollars for the Dixie Gun Works catalog - its well worth it for the reading alone, not to mention the good products and information.

Track of the Wolf has some beautiful kits available!

I'd say with a Flinter, you need to figure out 1) Caliber, 2) Barrel Length etc and then shop for what meets your needs.

leoparddog9 said:

I'd say if you already have an in-line the flintlock would be the way to go for something really traditional. A sidelock percusion Hawkins would get you halfway there, but in your shooting it, it wouldn't be that much difference between it and the modern inline - more of a style difference than anything else - to me.

Most of the kits you can buy can be completed using small hand tools (chisels, gouges, sandpaper) or using a Dremel. With flinters a really good lock is probably the most important thing. A good lock requires the right hardness of the frizen and the right geometry of the hammer to get a consistent hot spark. Lyman has a good reputation as does Dixie Gun Works. From looking at DGW website they're selling mostly Pedersoli Kits, but you could assemble your own kit from individual parts from DGW, but that would require more work on your part.

Spend a few dollars for the Dixie Gun Works catalog - its well worth it for the reading alone, not to mention the good products and information.

Track of the Wolf has some beautiful kits available!

I'd say with a Flinter, you need to figure out 1) Caliber, 2) Barrel Length etc and then shop for what meets your needs.

Click to expand...

thanks! will do. what seems to be the norm as far as caliber and barrel length for hunting deer?

Flinter caliber for deer hunting, some states have a legal minimum of .45 cal. So first, I'd check the state hunting regs. GA legal min. is .44 cal or larger for deer and bear.

A .45 will do the trick, but most folks go up to a .50 and some even a .54 since they're shooting PRBs (Patched Round Balls). I think a .50 is a good choice unless you want to hunt Elk or maybe Bear one day then .54 would be better. The average weight of my .50 RBs is about 177gr.

As for barrel length, many folks say the longer the barrel, the higher the velocity. Personally, I think anything under 28" is too short. In a flintlock, I'd put the upper limit for me at about 32".

Most Flintlocks will have a rate of twist equal to or greater than 1-48". The 1-48" twist barrels can in a pinch shoot the maxi/mini ball bullets as well as PRBs. Individual mileage may vary, but my 1-48" twist 28" barrel has dropped deer at 80yrds with a 350gr Maxiball.

Twists greater than 1-48", like 1-60" are strictly for PRB shooting only as they will not stabilize the heavier maxiballs.

All that said, a 177gr .50 PRB over 70grs of powder will kill deer about as far as you can shoot with open sights. My personal limit is about 80 yards.

Those deer may run a bit further than if you shot them with a .30-06, but the deer will be a "dead deer running" Give them time to expire before trailing them.

I have a Traditions .50 Cal. Pennsyvania Flintlock.

http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/eShop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=R2100

Lot of fun to shoot, but it is different than a cap or in-line and takes a little practice, but I wanted something as historically accurate as possible without breaking the bank.