Can we overstate the importance of acres / hunter ratio?

No apologies David!

We are all grown and while we all get frustrated at times, reason and patience should be the order of the day.

Many is the time I have written (or said) things I wished I could take back - and was not able to.


We still all want what you have ! (well, at least many of us do!)

Pappy -

I see no sin in the club you are in.

With your membership in or past the 8 year mark, there must be many things about it you like.

Many times, it is what you can afford, what you are willing to give up to get it and what you wanted in the first place.

I will say, sir, that the dividing line is far greater than the difference between $600 and $1200.

You can have 6 guys on 300 acres or 12 guys on 600 acres and you still have the same thing, right?

Soooo.... we are right back to the same dilemma - placing importance on acre / hunter ratio.

There is no way (generally) you can have 150 - 200 acres per man and have it stay at that $600 mark.


Now, what you can do is have 100 or so acres per man (which I think is ABOUT where David is) - but exercise remarkable trigger control and remarkable pressure management like David does - and you can then CREATE a place that men would cry to hunt.



Fair enough?



Many thanks !

Great post Jim...Many opinions on this subject obviously...and I'll have to go back and read thru the many comments as time allows but, I have always said...Less is More!!!

And, many if not most folks I tell or talk to about how it and or how I do it say I'm crazy!!

I will say this,..it has not been easy and it can be a real struggle at times when business has or is not treating me well!

For me it's been (1) plus some family and a friend or 2 from time to time over the years on somewhere around 1000AC...probably haven't killed more than 20 deer total in nearly the 12yrs..Most of them bucks..Archery Only for the last 7 or 8 yrs I think it is...and it is a play ground for wildlife of all sorts...foodplots and feeding stations that have never had a Hunter's eyes on them year after year and I cannot remember a time when I went afield and have not had an encounter with wildlife of some kind..and lots of deer!
My son calls it Jurassic Park!!

I know it could all go away in a minute with one decision from my landowner but, I will continue to do what feels right to me!!

One thing is for sure the place I came to and begun my journey on is not the place it is now...all one has to do is ride the property lines and see all of the surrounding clubs and the stands that are and have been erected on those property lines over the years since I've been there...I believe I'm doin something right?

Means and Opportunity and Supply and Demand..dictate almost all before ones particular management philosophy I would have to believe when it comes to leased property!?!

My $.02...don't hit me too hard please...

Good Luck Folks!

Jim Boyd said:

No apologies David!

We are all grown and while we all get frustrated at times, reason and patience should be the order of the day.

Many is the time I have written (or said) things I wished I could take back - and was not able to.


We still all want what you have ! (well, at least many of us do!)

Click to expand...

I enjoy your approach, no desire to bring conflict but more resolution to common thoughts. Keep posting sir

GottaGetOutdoors said:

Big difference between hunting a property vs. managing a property. It is a consumer vs. conservation mentality.

The consumer minded hunter tends to take more than his share with little regard for how it impacts the herd. I see guys who wear out a property and then move on to a new property to abuse. I call these "shoot out and get out" clubs.

Contrast that with the conservation minded hunter who wants to use the resource wisely to ensure long term sustainability. By his "giver" mentality, he tends to improve a property over time and will leave it in better shape than he finds it.

I too have seen the proverbial 30-acre tract that yields loads of deer every year. And I feel sorry for the neighboring landowner, because it comes at his expense. In the wildlife management world, we refer to that kind of club as the lowest hole in the bucket. Based on the notion that, if you want your bucket to hold more water, then start by plugging the lowest hole in the bucket. A landowner or club that wants to improve herd health on their land may identify the neighboring 30-acre "Kill 'em All" club as the lowest hole in the bucket. One way to plug that hole is to lease it or buy it. Happens all the time.

Click to expand...

The actual tract I was referring to bordered a big tract of government land that wasn't hunted, and was surrounded by development on the other side. The family that owned it usually killed a decent buck or two and a handful of does every year, but regardless of what they killed they did't have trouble with the deer replenishing. In that situation the acres per hunter was pretty high, if you considered the government land in the equation. I agree though, that you don't want them as neighbors if you own land next door.

PappyHoel said:

Your post doesn't sell hunt club membership. Hunt club managers are more interested in selling and managing membership than they are about deer management.

Deer management costs $1200 vs hunter management which cost $600.

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Man, this is 2018. Its not reasonable to expect any kind of game management or quality opportunity for $600. Maybe in 1990. Time marches on.

Yes, there is probably a price point that folks will pay up to and not over, but for most that have any expectation of game management, its well north of $600.

Buckstop said:

Man, this is 2018. Its not reasonable to expect any kind of game management or quality opportunity for $600. Maybe in 1990. Time marches on.

Yes, there is probably a price point that folks will pay up to and not over, but for most that have any expectation of game management, its well north of $600.

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That's what he said. Hence the 1200(which is technically 2400) 600 is a lot of people on a tract where you spend all your time managing them.

As a club manager

I can tell you this.

If you are paying $650 - $750 for club dues, you have a member per 50 acres.

If you are paying $1300 - $1500 for club dues , you have a member for every 100 acres.

I am for the 2nd, but can find no support for that among my people.

IMHO - QDM is easy to obtain in the first (mature bucks only and 1 to 2 does per member max)...

..(hunt by state game laws and all deer kill numbers total apply to 1 paying membership per household) and if you want all your club members and their family to be able to hunt and possibly kill game the 2nd is the option.

There really is not an in between.

s&r

across the river said:

The actual tract I was referring to bordered a big tract of government land that wasn't hunted, and was surrounded by development on the other side. The family that owned it usually killed a decent buck or two and a handful of does every year, but regardless of what they killed they did't have trouble with the deer replenishing. In that situation the acres per hunter was pretty high, if you considered the government land in the equation. I agree though, that you don't want them as neighbors if you own land next door.

Click to expand...

I have seen one hunter in the woods in the last 5 years, my ratio is probably about 7,000 acres per hunter.

If you can see the hunter next to you that might be an indicator that you have too many. In general I was say 100 acres/person

I kinda ..Worked the System.
Joined a Dog Hunt Club with 425 members...but only maybe 200 hunt Tree stand , Ground Blind , ect. Part time till Dog Season.
That's 200 or so Still Hunters on 93 Thousand acres. Rest of them ride the road and chase dogs all over the County. No it's not a Trophy Club , No QDM except what my Crew practices. No Does allowed , plenty of Hogs , Rabbits and Squirrels. I'm good.
No flagging tape , No Climbers every 100 yards , No Food plots , No Feeders. Just Natural Deer acting Naturally..

Swamp

93k acres is over 145 square miles.

What is the name of this dog hunting club, if you don’t mind telling us?

Thanks

You are not seeing all the deer.........

and you are not killing all the deer.

Most clubs are run according to how much members can and will pony up the money.

I don't know what to say about clubs that have $3000 in food plots. In our club, there are no "spots". You can put in a food plot and if you tag in there it is a respect thing, nobody else hunts it. But, you better be tagged in on it.

Food plots are up to each member, and they can put in as many or as few as they want. I put in 3 each year, and I know I don't have over $200 in all three combined.

s&r

S&R

3 plots and less than $200?

What size would these plots be and what is planted?

Not counting amending the soil with lime, our winter plots break down something like this, per acre:

2 bags oats $50
25 lbs crimson clover $40
300 lbs fertilizer $90

These figures are likely off a bit but that is $180 for one acre....

We have a little over 25 acres that we can plant.

It does not take long to run up a tab. My buddy and I have about 10 acres planted on one tract that is only 247 acres....