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  #151  
Old 06-17-2017, 01:12 AM
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I don't see that in that, at all.
I see Jesus saying that a man that is not convicted of a righteousness greater than his own will not believe.
The gospel, the good news...is really only good news to traitors, to convicts, to those who have had their eyes open to being under a lash that they either cannot, or will not any longer deny is of their own deserving. And it is clearly not something of which one man can make another aware or accept.
After all...we are all...pretty decent folks, right?

Yes...it's an "out". It's the out...the "get out of jail" card for the most hardened of criminals. No, it is not fair in any sense man could perceive, indeed it is probably the most "unfair" thing ever revealed.

You said in another post very recently, "hearing the truth is hard...accepting it...even harder". Everyone, you, me...yes...everyone...wants points for "doing the hard work"...something to show for it...for "putting in the time on this" (whatever "this" may be).

What is more offensive than watching someone get "all the credit" for what appears to be none of their own doing? A thing just "given them" while any other one in particular labors long and hard to have the very thing they see just given another. Yes, it's infuriating...until that fury is faced.

Jesus made it very plain he didn't come for the whole and well. He came for the ill. Then of course, the well and whole, having no need of him, will not find him beckoning with healing. Why would they, how could they?

A man could say "But I don't want to be found a wretch" then obviously, that man doesn't really want to be found...at all.

Me, I got no choice in the matter.

In what seems the kindest way imaginable you tell me I am a snake oil salesman, the Ron Popeil of forums, the indefatigable gas bag of bloggingly tedious posts. But these are really far kinder descriptions than I merit. Ron Popeil is probably much kinder, bloggers probably know their place better than I, and snake oil salesmen may even succumb to a restitution of means when pressed.

Yes, in every way, at every turn, without exception I am the "that guy" that all the memes so warn against being... "don't be that guy".

I just can't feel bad about it anymore as once I did, laboring under a lash to be a someone and something other than what I am. Of course no one in their right mind would want to listen to me or think like I do for fear of becoming in appearance as I appear to them.

But I have a friend.

And been on this earth long enough, and in this earth long enough to know, things are never as they seem. But before I grab for my own gold ring touting a tenure in which I have had no choice, no, none at all, (I have not had to keep myself awake to remember to merely breathe)...all of it has been given me, friend and all...in a moment...in the twinkling of an eye. Undeserved.

No, I am not a gunslinger, not a man one could fear with lightning in his holster, and surely not as good a friend as this one is portrayed...plainly willing to take a bullet in order to stay close. I am the man with man boobs, who cowers easily, tires quickly, and always exceeds in imagination of myself at the expense of others. But to trade the truth of that could be to exchange the truth of why a silly movie is even able to speak to me, or a silly cat, or a silly cup of coffee, or a silly thing that has been happening every single day...relentlessly...the dawn. To be really awake to any, must include being awake to all.

Even the odd truth that as creature I am probably host to an equal number of bacteria as I am composed of "my own" living cells. Seems I am "home" to an almost innumerable host of things, my own cells included that, were they all having to wait upon my conscious instructions for their directions...well, I've long since ceded this house of consciousness is to some purpose for consciousness that consciousness can even be fooled by. Like believing it can even direct itself. "I will be conscious of this...but...Oh, no, not that!" I know I can't make anyone see the humor in that. But if they have...we laugh.
No, I am always needing to be told through a feedback over which I have no control of "what's going on". I am well aware of the barter of men in souls to secure what they hope to have, what they believe they need. Selling off a thing not really their own to sell in hope of purchase of deemed necessities. Pleasant feedback. Believing they start with full account, but discovering they have been laboring all of debt...from the outset. Yes, Jesus told me that.

If you haven't been faithful with someone else's property, who will give you your own? Lk 16:12

But yes, I have a friend. He keeps me...to the keeping of him...in my soul. After all, it's his, he purchased it, that debt riddled decrepit thing I only found use for in the selling.


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Last edited by Israel; 06-17-2017 at 02:27 AM.
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  #152  
Old 06-17-2017, 04:38 AM
bullethead bullethead is offline
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Originally Posted by Israel View Post
I don't see that in that, at all.
I see Jesus saying that a man that is not convicted of a righteousness greater than his own will not believe.
The gospel, the good news...is really only good news to traitors, to convicts, to those who have had their eyes open to being under a lash that they either cannot, or will not any longer deny is of their own deserving. And it is clearly not something of which one man can make another aware or accept.
After all...we are all...pretty decent folks, right?

Yes...it's an "out". It's the out...the "get out of jail" card for the most hardened of criminals. No, it is not fair in any sense man could perceive, indeed it is probably the most "unfair" thing ever revealed.

You said in another post very recently, "hearing the truth is hard...accepting it...even harder". Everyone, you, me...yes...everyone...wants points for "doing the hard work"...something to show for it...for "putting in the time on this" (whatever "this" may be).

What is more offensive than watching someone get "all the credit" for what appears to be none of their own doing? A thing just "given them" while any other one in particular labors long and hard to have the very thing they see just given another. Yes, it's infuriating...until that fury is faced.

Jesus made it very plain he didn't come for the whole and well. He came for the ill. Then of course, the well and whole, having no need of him, will not find him beckoning with healing. Why would they, how could they?

A man could say "But I don't want to be found a wretch" then obviously, that man doesn't really want to be found...at all.

Me, I got no choice in the matter.

In what seems the kindest way imaginable you tell me I am a snake oil salesman, the Ron Popeil of forums, the indefatigable gas bag of bloggingly tedious posts. But these are really far kinder descriptions than I merit. Ron Popeil is probably much kinder, bloggers probably know their place better than I, and snake oil salesmen may even succumb to a restitution of means when pressed.

Yes, in every way, at every turn, without exception I am the "that guy" that all the memes so warn against being... "don't be that guy".

I just can't feel bad about it anymore as once I did, laboring under a lash to be a someone and something other than what I am. Of course no one in their right mind would want to listen to me or think like I do for fear of becoming in appearance as I appear to them.

But I have a friend.

And been on this earth long enough, and in this earth long enough to know, things are never as they seem. But before I grab for my own gold ring touting a tenure in which I have had no choice, no, none at all, (I have not had to keep myself awake to remember to merely breathe)...all of it has been given me, friend and all...in a moment...in the twinkling of an eye. Undeserved.

No, I am not a gunslinger, not a man one could fear with lightning in his holster, and surely not as good a friend as this one is portrayed...plainly willing to take a bullet in order to stay close. I am the man with man boobs, who cowers easily, tires quickly, and always exceeds in imagination of myself at the expense of others. But to trade the truth of that could be to exchange the truth of why a silly movie is even able to speak to me, or a silly cat, or a silly cup of coffee, or a silly thing that has been happening every single day...relentlessly...the dawn. To be really awake to any, must include being awake to all.

Even the odd truth that as creature I am probably host to an equal number of bacteria as I am composed of "my own" living cells. Seems I am "home" to an almost innumerable host of things, my own cells included that, were they all having to wait upon my conscious instructions for their directions...well, I've long since ceded this house of consciousness is to some purpose for consciousness that consciousness can even be fooled by. Like believing it can even direct itself. "I will be conscious of this...but...Oh, no, not that!" I know I can't make anyone see the humor in that. But if they have...we laugh.
No, I am always needing to be told through a feedback over which I have no control of "what's going on". I am well aware of the barter of men in souls to secure what they hope to have, what they believe they need. Selling off a thing not really their own to sell in hope of purchase of deemed necessities. Pleasant feedback. Believing they start with full account, but discovering they have been laboring all of debt...from the outset. Yes, Jesus told me that.

If you haven't been faithful with someone else's property, who will give you your own? Lk 16:12

But yes, I have a friend. He keeps me...to the keeping of him...in my soul. After all, it's his, he purchased it, that debt riddled decrepit thing I only found use for in the selling.


Nobody that actually heard Jesus say anything wrote any part of those gospels. They had no idea what Jesus said or didn't say. Neither do you.
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  #153  
Old 06-17-2017, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by bullethead View Post
Nobody that actually heard Jesus say anything wrote any part of those gospels. They had no idea what Jesus said or didn't say. Neither do you.
I came to a breakthrough of sorts in a tangible way some years back when I was having issue with the scriptures as "a whole". Guess you could call it a doubting Thomas moment for me -- which ended well. The appeal of this may be relevant.

The bible always had a cohesiveness for me and that became more apparent with time. But after a decade in the faith (late 80's) there were some points that didn't seem as if they "spoke" or were understood at "any" level, not even a spiritual one, to me. In essence, perhaps like you, I saw an over kill of rules and regs that didn't connect the dots with the Lord's words: "Come to me --- I will give you rest". Yes, I accepted the invitation some years back, and chose to believe and take our Lord at His word.
But for a time I had a crisis of faith, ....
"what if this 'book of books' hadn't really 'spoken' the Life I had witnessed once?" The strange thing was that for whatever gaze I put toward that sacrificial work of Love from a roman cross, I turned the gaze back on myself and began to 'measure' my 'performance' toward this One who delighted in me not for a perfect performance but for His Life freely given within hearts, including mine.

So the futility of weighing my duties against His work became a looking away from that unconditional gift and the grace by which a man is sin rescued, and not out of his own doing.
There's much more to say about this, but this is not my main thought. I'll include it only to describe my personal struggle, and my frustration from how I was 'seeing' the Life message in the bible.

Shoot back about 150 years to another man, a brilliant linguist and mathematician... "He had a voracious appetite for knowledge, especially in literature and linguistics. At the age of 22 he emigrated to the United States and entered Harvard University, where he spent four years, picking up Greek and Hebrew, and graduating in 1882 with a Master of Literary Criticism." - Wiki added.

This man was a staunch doubter of the message of the bible, but while investigating the original old and new testament manuscripts he found something so fascinating that he devoted the rest of his life to it.

He proved the truth of that verse ...
2 Pete 1:21 - No prophecy ever originated from humans. Instead, it was given by the Holy Spirit as humans spoke under God’s direction.

In short, an incalculable amount of patterns and equations had come out of his studies, so much so that to this day no one has been able to refute his findings, nor has the largest computing systems and servers ever matched the intricate and profound "weave" of the pages of scripture, with a blueprint unmatched by any other. These intricacies could not have been from the minds of Moses, the prophets or those ragamuffin disciples including the Apostle Paul himself, with out a Divine working through such men.

Being convinced the bible had a source Higher than man's imagination, he also began to look at each of the 66 books of 'cannon' and witness to the mark of Providence in it.

Perhaps he considered, "What if He should "be" -- of all time and eternity, Him who has come to bear all our burdens?"

Yes, the grappling of this thing called 'trust' and 'faith', toward Him who is unseen, yet calls, wills (that none miss it), that loves, gives ... and gives rest. This man began that trek also, and no turning back but a redemptive conclusion.

Now maybe this mathematical work won't resonate with some. I get that, but my own time on this became a refreshment for me in the bible studies from that point forward. I would hope a look at this, as thoroughly as possible might answer doubts and begin to give clarity and knowledge of its Benevolent Author.

Indeed, it's been my own experience that this man's linguistic and math pattern findings have 'spoken' to doubt, especially my own. Especially in times of 'dryness' if you will, to the life of faith.
Yes, since this 'crisis', I have found that One Man was very well and fully given to my spirit and soul and began to show Himself in that "book' as one to whom I may have union. Yes, by this at the right time was to have a refreshing 'look' at Him who dwells in light.

==============

Some links here might add better insight than I have tried to explain ...

This link is to an entire book by Ivan Panin:
The structure of the Bible : a proof of the verbal inspiration of Scripture

Wiki

Other Books at Amazon

All this to say - consider uncovering the message of the bible itself. As I went back and did just that, many of my objections were answered or just became 'smaller', but the unconditional message of union, acceptance & Mercy & Grace became overwhelming.

My 2 pesos...
There's proof enough of the scriptures' eternal, Providential Origin from this man's work.
Yes, even he, a hardened atheist, became a believer with time.
Peace
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  #154  
Old 06-18-2017, 10:26 AM
bullethead bullethead is offline
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Originally Posted by StriperAddict View Post
I came to a breakthrough of sorts in a tangible way some years back when I was having issue with the scriptures as "a whole". Guess you could call it a doubting Thomas moment for me -- which ended well. The appeal of this may be relevant.

The bible always had a cohesiveness for me and that became more apparent with time. But after a decade in the faith (late 80's) there were some points that didn't seem as if they "spoke" or were understood at "any" level, not even a spiritual one, to me. In essence, perhaps like you, I saw an over kill of rules and regs that didn't connect the dots with the Lord's words: "Come to me --- I will give you rest". Yes, I accepted the invitation some years back, and chose to believe and take our Lord at His word.
But for a time I had a crisis of faith, ....
"what if this 'book of books' hadn't really 'spoken' the Life I had witnessed once?" The strange thing was that for whatever gaze I put toward that sacrificial work of Love from a roman cross, I turned the gaze back on myself and began to 'measure' my 'performance' toward this One who delighted in me not for a perfect performance but for His Life freely given within hearts, including mine.

So the futility of weighing my duties against His work became a looking away from that unconditional gift and the grace by which a man is sin rescued, and not out of his own doing.
There's much more to say about this, but this is not my main thought. I'll include it only to describe my personal struggle, and my frustration from how I was 'seeing' the Life message in the bible.

Shoot back about 150 years to another man, a brilliant linguist and mathematician... "He had a voracious appetite for knowledge, especially in literature and linguistics. At the age of 22 he emigrated to the United States and entered Harvard University, where he spent four years, picking up Greek and Hebrew, and graduating in 1882 with a Master of Literary Criticism." - Wiki added.

This man was a staunch doubter of the message of the bible, but while investigating the original old and new testament manuscripts he found something so fascinating that he devoted the rest of his life to it.

He proved the truth of that verse ...
2 Pete 1:21 - No prophecy ever originated from humans. Instead, it was given by the Holy Spirit as humans spoke under God’s direction.

In short, an incalculable amount of patterns and equations had come out of his studies, so much so that to this day no one has been able to refute his findings, nor has the largest computing systems and servers ever matched the intricate and profound "weave" of the pages of scripture, with a blueprint unmatched by any other. These intricacies could not have been from the minds of Moses, the prophets or those ragamuffin disciples including the Apostle Paul himself, with out a Divine working through such men.

Being convinced the bible had a source Higher than man's imagination, he also began to look at each of the 66 books of 'cannon' and witness to the mark of Providence in it.

Perhaps he considered, "What if He should "be" -- of all time and eternity, Him who has come to bear all our burdens?"

Yes, the grappling of this thing called 'trust' and 'faith', toward Him who is unseen, yet calls, wills (that none miss it), that loves, gives ... and gives rest. This man began that trek also, and no turning back but a redemptive conclusion.

Now maybe this mathematical work won't resonate with some. I get that, but my own time on this became a refreshment for me in the bible studies from that point forward. I would hope a look at this, as thoroughly as possible might answer doubts and begin to give clarity and knowledge of its Benevolent Author.

Indeed, it's been my own experience that this man's linguistic and math pattern findings have 'spoken' to doubt, especially my own. Especially in times of 'dryness' if you will, to the life of faith.
Yes, since this 'crisis', I have found that One Man was very well and fully given to my spirit and soul and began to show Himself in that "book' as one to whom I may have union. Yes, by this at the right time was to have a refreshing 'look' at Him who dwells in light.

==============

Some links here might add better insight than I have tried to explain ...

This link is to an entire book by Ivan Panin:
The structure of the Bible : a proof of the verbal inspiration of Scripture

Wiki

Other Books at Amazon

All this to say - consider uncovering the message of the bible itself. As I went back and did just that, many of my objections were answered or just became 'smaller', but the unconditional message of union, acceptance & Mercy & Grace became overwhelming.

My 2 pesos...
There's proof enough of the scriptures' eternal, Providential Origin from this man's work.
Yes, even he, a hardened atheist, became a believer with time.
Peace
Who is this guy so I can research him?
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Only what can happen does happen.
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  #155  
Old 06-18-2017, 02:28 PM
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God gives us free will not to choose to be with Him in heaven when you die.

It's not going to be a picnic to be apart from the presence of God, which is he11. God doesn't want you there so He made a way that you wouldn't have to spend eternity apart from Him.

All these years and you're still making posts like this, it makes one think you're not listening.
Jump to 20:43.



At 21:40:

"When someone says something too evil to believe, one response is not to doubt their sincerity, but to expand one's capacity to imagine what otherwise decent people can desire."

I understand you, String. Given that you judge everything from the starting point that everything God does is just and right and good and loving, I can see why the concept of He11 doesn't bother you. Luckily, you do what most Western people do with the concept of He11, you mentally compartmentalize it and shelve it in a dark corner where you don't have to deal with it daily. If you responded to it like the truly horrific idea that it is, and in conjunction with the 'love of your neighbor' that you aspire to, you would be tearing your clothes in the streets and yelling at the top of your lungs for God to show sinners like me some mercy. You would stand on a street corner with a sign and a bullhorn, pleading out of love for everyone to repent. If you told me you were gonna kill yourself I would PM you. I would call you on the phone. I would go to your house. I'm going to burn in He11 for eternity. Don't you love me enough to at least do that?

It's a rhetorical question. Don't call me or come to my house unless you just wanna hang out. You don't believe in He11 anymore than I do.
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  #156  
Old 06-18-2017, 03:15 PM
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More awesome quotes. at 1:17:18.

Graem Wood: "God has blinded us to lots of things before, why not 'this' too? Why should we expect that our scientific instruments will be able to do what God may very well not want us to be able to do?"

Sam Harris: "This is how faith functions as the ultimate 'get out of epistemological jail free' card."
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Old 06-18-2017, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ambush80 View Post
Jump to 20:43.



At 21:40:

"When someone says something too evil to believe, one response is not to doubt their sincerity, but to expand one's capacity to imagine what otherwise decent people can desire."

I understand you, String. Given that you judge everything from the starting point that everything God does is just and right and good and loving, I can see why the concept of He11 doesn't bother you. Luckily, you do what most Western people do with the concept of He11, you mentally compartmentalize it and shelve it in a dark corner where you don't have to deal with it daily. If you responded to it like the truly horrific idea that it is, and in conjunction with the 'love of your neighbor' that you aspire to, you would be tearing your clothes in the streets and yelling at the top of your lungs for God to show sinners like me some mercy. You would stand on a street corner with a sign and a bullhorn, pleading out of love for everyone to repent. If you told me you were gonna kill yourself I would PM you. I would call you on the phone. I would go to your house. I'm going to burn in He11 for eternity. Don't you love me enough to at least do that?

It's a rhetorical question. Don't call me or come to my house unless you just wanna hang out. You don't believe in He11 anymore than I do.
We are not your saviour. We are only reflectors of the light of our saviour.
Don't mistake that.

I believe in a real he11.
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  #158  
Old 06-18-2017, 05:34 PM
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Who is this guy so I can research him?
Ivan Panin, I left a couple of links in the post.

This one link is a good synopsis ... Ivan Panin's - Bible Numerics
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  #159  
Old 06-18-2017, 07:50 PM
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We are not your saviour. We are only reflectors of the light of our saviour.
Don't mistake that.

I believe in a real he11.
Wrong answer.

You should have said "God didn't give me that job. He moves me to testify only to the degree that He knows I can stand to offer. He would never give me a cross I couldn't bear".
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Old 06-19-2017, 06:17 AM
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So they said to Jesus, “We do not know.” “Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things,” He replied. “But what do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work today’ in the vineyard. ‘I will not,’ he replied. But later he changed his mind and went.

Then the man went to the second son and told him the same thing. ‘I will, sir,’ he said. But he did not go. Which of the two did the will of his father?” “The first,” they answered. Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God before you."

To me it appears the first son was given time to repent, to rethink...to go. The second son was given time to discover his proclaimed obedience was a vanity.

To be honest, I have no idea into which son I am presently fit. The most recalcitrant I see may indeed be the one made to obedience...while I sit and judge him for saying "no". And I could indeed be the one proclaiming obedience...with no real intention of going....till I find out. Completely mistaken about what "sort of man" I am...and therefore completely mistaken about everything else. (here could be a necessary pause...to consider that)

yes, I am "in the experiment" no less than any other.

God knows.


Addendum...I am trusting at least someone, if only one other one...will see the humor in this, having found it posted to my feed immediately upon leaving this forum. Of course to some it may seem completely irrelevant...to another just a thing at best of "serendipity"...but you ask...why would a man believe he is hearing from the God of all gods? I just believe I can no longer avoid it.
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:05 AM
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So they said to Jesus, “We do not know.” “Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things,” He replied. “But what do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work today’ in the vineyard. ‘I will not,’ he replied. But later he changed his mind and went.

Then the man went to the second son and told him the same thing. ‘I will, sir,’ he said. But he did not go. Which of the two did the will of his father?” “The first,” they answered. Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God before you."

To me it appears the first son was given time to repent, to rethink...to go. The second son was given time to discover his proclaimed obedience was a vanity.

To be honest, I have no idea into which son I am presently fit. The most recalcitrant I see may indeed be the one made to obedience...while I sit and judge him for saying "no". And I could indeed be the one proclaiming obedience...with no real intention of going....till I find out. Completely mistaken about what "sort of man" I am...and therefore completely mistaken about everything else. (here could be a necessary pause...to consider that)

yes, I am "in the experiment" no less than any other.

God knows.


Addendum...I am trusting at least someone, if only one other one...will see the humor in this, having found it posted to my feed immediately upon leaving this forum. Of course to some it may seem completely irrelevant...to another just a thing at best of "serendipity"...but you ask...why would a man believe he is hearing from the God of all gods? I just believe I can no longer avoid it.
Quotes from Jesus and his followers recorded by someone else who wasn't there.
People pretend a god knows
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by StriperAddict View Post
Ivan Panin, I left a couple of links in the post.

This one link is a good synopsis ... Ivan Panin's - Bible Numerics
This is a good link to counter Panins "work"
http://www.rationalskepticism.org/cr...in-t38335.html
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  #163  
Old 06-19-2017, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ambush80 View Post
Jump to 20:43.



At 21:40:

"When someone says something too evil to believe, one response is not to doubt their sincerity, but to expand one's capacity to imagine what otherwise decent people can desire."

I understand you, String. Given that you judge everything from the starting point that everything God does is just and right and good and loving, I can see why the concept of He11 doesn't bother you. Luckily, you do what most Western people do with the concept of He11, you mentally compartmentalize it and shelve it in a dark corner where you don't have to deal with it daily. If you responded to it like the truly horrific idea that it is, and in conjunction with the 'love of your neighbor' that you aspire to, you would be tearing your clothes in the streets and yelling at the top of your lungs for God to show sinners like me some mercy. You would stand on a street corner with a sign and a bullhorn, pleading out of love for everyone to repent. If you told me you were gonna kill yourself I would PM you. I would call you on the phone. I would go to your house. I'm going to burn in He11 for eternity. Don't you love me enough to at least do that?

It's a rhetorical question. Don't call me or come to my house unless you just wanna hang out. You don't believe in He11 anymore than I do.

Don't forget the part about wiping the dust off one's feet.
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:21 PM
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Don't forget the part about wiping the dust off one's feet.
How do you view that in reference to yourself?
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Old 06-21-2017, 10:57 AM
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This is a good link to counter Panins "work"
http://www.rationalskepticism.org/cr...in-t38335.html
The problem with this and any skeptic of Panin's findings is that none of them devoted their entire lives to this inquiry as Panin did. His volume of research was huge and constantly affirmed the proofs throughout the entire cannon of scripture of a one of a kind complexity. As soon as a section uncovered a numerical thread, Panin went further to dissect it, and included the verses around it as well as the book of scripture itself; Psalms, the gospels, Isaiah, etc., etc. This man Panin was a linguistic and mathematical genius, and what he found were numerical and complex equation structures and patterns so intricate that even the best super computers today could not recreate. Not a computer or man on earth could write a book and make it include the kinds of countless numerical threads like the bible.

Incidentally, no other 'religious' book(s) have any complex pattern either.

Sure, I haven't made sense out of ALL of the bible as far as some history, etc., is concerned. How long were the 7 days of creation? I don't know. And that part about the sword thrust into the fat guys big belly is one that for now I'll let pass with a chuckle for real .
But the major message of God and man's union is one I continue to learn much from, and the road to know more ain't over yet. And Panin had seen and believed -- by a doorway available to us hardened skeptics, the word of God.
Peace
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Old 06-21-2017, 12:57 PM
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The problem with this and any skeptic of Panin's findings is that none of them devoted their entire lives to this inquiry as Panin did. His volume of research was huge and constantly affirmed the proofs throughout the entire cannon of scripture of a one of a kind complexity. As soon as a section uncovered a numerical thread, Panin went further to dissect it, and included the verses around it as well as the book of scripture itself; Psalms, the gospels, Isaiah, etc., etc. This man Panin was a linguistic and mathematical genius, and what he found were numerical and complex equation structures and patterns so intricate that even the best super computers today could not recreate. Not a computer or man on earth could write a book and make it include the kinds of countless numerical threads like the bible.

Incidentally, no other 'religious' book(s) have any complex pattern either.

Sure, I haven't made sense out of ALL of the bible as far as some history, etc., is concerned. How long were the 7 days of creation? I don't know. And that part about the sword thrust into the fat guys big belly is one that for now I'll let pass with a chuckle for real .
But the major message of God and man's union is one I continue to learn much from, and the road to know more ain't over yet. And Panin had seen and believed -- by a doorway available to us hardened skeptics, the word of God.
Peace
I was unaware that lifetime dedication was the end all factor in something being true.

If you read the comments in the link you would see that mathematical code used for the song "Ice Ice Baby" predicted the 911 attack. They extracted predictions from MobyDick and the Hong Kong telephone book.

Post #10 in the comments talks about the omission of vowels in the original Hebrew text and how it let the text be manipulated easier to "find" the code.

Manipulated being the key word when dealing with "hidden" codes.
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  #167  
Old 06-21-2017, 05:53 PM
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http://users.cecs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html
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Old 06-21-2017, 05:55 PM
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From the skeptics
"
The best thing about Panin then is that it led to someone quoting Melville.

I do remember running into Panin's arguments in my religious days and the criticism is that he constructed a method so loose that the miracle would be if he did not find some sort of repetitive numerological pattern. The problem is you can take about any book and find the same patterns because his methodology is constructed to create them.

I remember he did things like borrowing from one verse (setting aside that the whole division into verses is a more recent phenomenon) to make sure certain numbers added up in the verse before or after it. Then he would ignore that because of that, the verse he borrowed from no longer added up to the numbers he wanted. Or, if nothing he did got a verse to add up, he would just switch to a different version of the Bible, translate it back into the original language and use that version for that verse.

He had so many caveats, so many exceptions and special rules that he made up whenever things were not turning out to fit his hypothesis, and then ignored those rules when they did not lead to his preferred results, that the whole claim was worthless and, as stated, you got the same mathematical results from any book"
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Old 06-21-2017, 07:34 PM
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4034787.stm
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Old 06-21-2017, 07:37 PM
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http://incrediblethings.com/web/jesu...-dogs-bum-bum/
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Old 06-21-2017, 11:00 PM
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That might be the Zig-Zag Man. I haven't seen him since high school.
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  #172  
Old 06-22-2017, 05:54 AM
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That might be the Zig-Zag Man. I haven't seen him since high school.
They do look amazingly similar.
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  #173  
Old 06-22-2017, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artfuldodger View Post
That might be the Zig-Zag Man. I haven't seen him since high school.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaltL1 View Post
They do look amazingly similar.
You guys have got me beat.

Evidence:

https://www.google.com/search?q=sasq...w=1152&bih=529
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