Different outlook on Coyotes

Fishin & Hunting

Senior Member
Listened to a podcast by Joe Rogan called "The Joe Rogan Experience". On Podcast 941 he had Dan Flores on to discuss his opinion on the evolution of coyotes. He also gets into other interesting things he has wrote books about.

Not that I believe all of his ideas. But he does make you think. It is his opinion that trying to rid the USA of coyotes, is the cause of why they spread to almost every state. That trying to thin the pack is causing their numbers to increase.

It is a long listen, but worth the time for me.
 

Buckhead

Senior Member
They are definitely here to stay, impossible to eradicate.

I didn't listen to the podcast, but I am skeptical about the premise that control efforts ultimately increase coyote populations. It is a natural migration, just like armadillos have expanded their range.

If you are trying to optimize deer and turkey on your property, predator control is important. I have hunted properties before and after extensive trapping was implemented. You don't realize how many coyotes you have. Trapping makes a big difference. Especially that first year. We immediately noticed fewer coyote sightings, less sign and night time howling. Over a couple of years, the deer and turkey really seemed to rebound. A lot more trail cam photos, especially of fawns.

Coyotes are somewhat territorial. If you take out a bunch, it takes a while for their numbers to rebound. Annual trapping will keep things manageable. You won't ever get rid of them all. Virtually all hunting plantations have an ongoing predator control program.
 

HermanMerman

Senior Member
I listened to it, and I won't pretend to have anymore than an elementary understanding of coyotes. But the theory makes sense considering the effort that has been given to their removal.
 

GLS

Classic Southern Gentleman
I'm about halfway through Lane's book, Coyote Settles the South, a 2016 book. He cites a study by the biologists at the Savannah River Plant that studied the impact of predator control (coyote) and fawn survival. About 500 coyotes were killed in the study area and the fawn survival rate didn't increase. Intervaginal transmitters were inserted into does that would activate when a fawn dropped. They would quickly arrive at the birthplace and fit the fawns with transmitters. The survival rate was dismal and when the monitor stopped moving that signaled a dead fawn. Often only bits of bone were found at the killing site. DNA testing of saliva confirmed coyote involvement. The conclusion was aggressive trapping and killing of coyotes didn't do much to stop fawn predation. The survival rate of fawns didn't improve despite the massive kill of coyotes. The book is a good read and attempts to remain neutral about coyotes recognizing the impact it has on game animals, but also doesn't depict it as a four-legged devil incarnate. H

Yes, it does kill domestic cats, but as the author notes, not many get worked up about the impact of domestic cats on songbirds. Lane is neither a hunter nor a coyote hugger. John Kilgo, son of the late Jim Kilgo (Deep Enough for Ivory Bills) was the head biologist on the bomb plant study. Gil
 
Last edited:

Fishin & Hunting

Senior Member
In the podcast it is stated that they will eat and kill cats, but most of the time they just kill them to reduce the competition that also eat the same food supply.

Now isn't that why we want to kill them.
 

dtala

Senior Member
Killing yotes actually INCREASES their numbers and spreads their range??? Really?? Must be some powerful drugs he is ingesting.

Fact: DEAD yotes do NOT reproduce OR spread to other areas, except maybe in a parallel universe.:crazy::crazy:

the LACK of a midsized predator in the South is what brought yotes here from out west over the last 50 years. No Red Wolf populations leaves a void the yotes filled. Ain't got nothing to do with trying to kill them.::ke:
 

GLS

Classic Southern Gentleman
It has been theorized that litter size is based on population density established by vocalizations heard in a territory. The fewer heard the larger the litter. Litter size varies from 1 to 19 pups. Coyotes adapt and thrive despite man's best efforts to eliminate them. Gil
 

Fishin & Hunting

Senior Member
dtala,

Listen to the pod cast to understand his thinking. It is not that far off. In fact he does bring the red wolf into the conversation. But it was more of a situation where the red wolf was breeding with the coyote.
 

Flash

Actually I Am QAnon
Intervaginal transmitters were inserted into does that would activate when a fawn dropped. They would quickly arrive at the birthplace and fit the fawns with transmitters. The survival rate was dismal and when the monitor stopped moving that signaled a dead fawn.

Could that have increased their scent making it easier for a yote to locate them?? :huh:
 

Permitchaser

Senior Member
I learned to hunt coyotes form a government exterminator who poisoned and trapped and shot them from a plane in Montana
He found up to 19 pups when food was plentiful. But said he never made a dent in them
 

Throwback

Chief Big Taw
Killing yotes actually INCREASES their numbers and spreads their range??? Really?? Must be some powerful drugs he is ingesting.

Fact: DEAD yotes do NOT reproduce OR spread to other areas, except maybe in a parallel universe.:crazy::crazy:

the LACK of a midsized predator in the South is what brought yotes here from out west over the last 50 years. No Red Wolf populations leaves a void the yotes filled. Ain't got nothing to do with trying to kill them.::ke:

hes not the first one to say that.
 

Throwback

Chief Big Taw
There are some that say from a livestock predation point of view if your local coyotes aren't killing your livestock, killing them may be bad because the coyotes that replace them may themselves be stock killers.
 

drippin' rock

Senior Member
I listen to most all his podcasts. I particularly enjoyed the Dan Flores one. I have observed for some time that regardless of a healthy and rising coyote population, the Georgia deer and turkey population are also healthy. I don't think Dan is suggesting folks should stop shooting coyotes if that is what makes you happy, but to think you are having an affect on the population is misguided.

If you hunt a piece of property that has struggling deer numbers, I would suggest you examine your hunting practices, or look at things like available food and water.
 

drippin' rock

Senior Member
Killing yotes actually INCREASES their numbers and spreads their range??? Really?? Must be some powerful drugs he is ingesting.

Fact: DEAD yotes do NOT reproduce OR spread to other areas, except maybe in a parallel universe.:crazy::crazy:

the LACK of a midsized predator in the South is what brought yotes here from out west over the last 50 years. No Red Wolf populations leaves a void the yotes filled. Ain't got nothing to do with trying to kill them.::ke:
Hmmm..... Not sure you are looking at this the right way. Listen to the podcast. Some fairly sound science is presented, and it is not from the view of anti hunter.
 

GLS

Classic Southern Gentleman
A farmer hunting buddy has serious deer and hog crop predation. If someone shoots a coyote on his property, they are no longer free to hunt his land. The deer and hogs are costing him five figures a year. Gil
 
Top