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Old 04-21-2017, 03:34 PM
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Default Abomination of desolation

It's pretty obvious the abomination of desolation was the Roman Soldiers surrounding Jerusalem in 66ad right?
Luke 21:
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.

And some historical reference.

Chrysostom wrote: "For this it seems to me that the abomination of desolation means the army by which the holy city of Jerusalem was made desolate." (The Ante-Nicene Fathers)

Augustine wrote: (379) "Luke to show that the abomination spoken of by Daniel will take place when Jerusalem is captured, recalls these words of the Lord in the same context: When you shall see Jerusalem compassed about with an army, then know that the desolation thereof is at hand (xxi. 20). For Luke very clearly bears witness that the prophecy of Daniel was fulfilled when Jerusalem was overthrown." (vol. 6, p. 170)

C.H. Spurgeon wrote: (1888) "This portion of our Saviour's words appears to relate solely to the destruction of Jerusalem. As soon as Christ's disciples saw "the abomination of desolation," that is, the Roman ensigns, with their idolatries, "stand in the holy place," they knew that the time for their escape had arrived; and they did flee to the mountains." (Matthew: The Gospel of the Kingdom. . p. 215).

Albert Barnes wrote: (1949) "The abomination of desolation means the Roman army, and is so explained by Lu, xxi. 20. The Roman army is further called the abomination on account of the images of the emperor, and the eagles, carried in front of the legions, and regarded by the Romans with divine honours" (Matthew p. 254)
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Old 04-21-2017, 06:03 PM
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And why is this important in my life?
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Old 04-21-2017, 06:17 PM
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and could they have been wrong, especially Spurgeon and Barnes, since they never saw Jerusalem built like it is now.

I know nothing happens after 70ad but is it not possible that they could have been mistaken?
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Old 04-21-2017, 09:42 PM
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and could they have been wrong, especially Spurgeon and Barnes, since they never saw Jerusalem built like it is now.

I know nothing happens after 70ad but is it not possible that they could have been mistaken?
Sure, it's possible they could be wrong. I'm not so sure Luke could be wrong though.
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Old 04-21-2017, 09:47 PM
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And why is this important in my life?
hey, don't mind me, just pick and choose what scripture is important to you.
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:11 PM
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hey, don't mind me, just pick and choose what scripture is important to you.
Hobbs, don't most Futurists agree that Jerusalem was destroyed by the Roman Army in 70AD?
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:33 PM
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Hobbs, don't most Futurists agree that Jerusalem was destroyed by the Roman Army in 70AD?
Yes, but not that it had to do with the abomination of desolation spoken of in Daniel.
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:38 PM
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I don't believe that Daniel was speaking of a one time event. If he was, why wasn't it when the Temple was desecrated when Neb'r overran the Temple and captured the jews and they went into a captivity. Surely if Daniel was speaking of one event, it would have been the event in his existance?
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:40 PM
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I don't believe that Daniel was speaking of a one time event. If he was, why wasn't it when the Temple was desecrated when Neb'r overran the Temple and captured the jews and they went into a captivity. Surely if Daniel was speaking of one event, it would have been the event in his existance?
Because the event Daniel was speaking of happened in the last half of the seventieth week... The end of the age.
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:44 PM
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proof?
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:50 PM
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Let's use Matthew's account;

So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

This is what makes me think it happened in 70AD;

"then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:52 PM
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you don't think those in Judea fled to the mountains when Neb'r came to town and overtook it?
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:58 PM
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How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers!
Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.

Who are these warnings for? Somebody is being given a heads up to get out of Dodge. Flee to the mountains.

Does it sound like a warning to me in America in 2017?
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:00 PM
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you don't think those in Judea fled to the mountains when Neb'r came to town and overtook it?
Then you see the warnings as pertaining to every overtaking of Jerusalem, past and present?

But Jesus is warning them about a future destruction or destructions, not one that happened 597 years before him.
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:04 PM
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Then you see the warnings as pertaining to every overtaking of Jerusalem, past and present?

But Jesus is warning them about a future destruction or destructions, not one that happened 597 years before him.

no, not every overthrowing of Jerusalem. I just wonder why the 70ad overthrowing was the one and only, and it couldn't be another.

Could it not happen at the end of the age of the Gentiles, as Peter was speaking in Acts 2 IIRC
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:08 PM
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Mark 13:9
"You must be on your guard. You will be handed over to the local councils and flogged in the synagogues. On account of me you will stand before governors and kings as witnesses to them.

Does this sound like something that will happen in the future? Christians flogged in synagogues?

Mark 13:14
"When you see 'the abomination that causes desolation' standing where it does not belong--let the reader understand--then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:12 PM
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Why not? you think the jews have a wrap on the persecution issue?

More Christians are killed each year. Just for being Christian. Estimates are the 900,000 were killed in the past decade, or one every 6 minutes.
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:18 PM
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no, not every overthrowing of Jerusalem. I just wonder why the 70ad overthrowing was the one and only, and it couldn't be another.

Could it not happen at the end of the age of the Gentiles, as Peter was speaking in Acts 2 IIRC
“Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles,"

Possibly, when was that event?
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:20 PM
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Why not? you think the jews have a wrap on the persecution issue?

More Christians are killed each year. Just for being Christian. Estimates are the 900,000 were killed in the past decade, or one every 6 minutes.
If one looks at those warnings in the Gospels of the eminent destruction of "Jerusalem", who did the warnings pertain to?
Who was being told they would be persecuted?

I'm not doubting a future coming of Jesus, but I can see that those warnings are for Christians in Judea of an eminent destruction.

Somehow I see those warnings as salvation from a local destruction and perhaps a future event as salvation from eternal death. Is this a bit far fetched? Maybe a parallel in some way or a past mirror of a future event.

I'm not going to be fleeing to the mountains. It's not gonna matter if my daughter is pregnant. It's not gonna matter if it's winter.
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:24 PM
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it was during Daniels time, during the time of Herod, and again at 70ad. Do you think it could happen again, especially since the jews are preparing to build a 3rd Temple? They offered a passover sacrifice in view of the Temple Mount this year, the closest it had been sacrificed in recent years.
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:31 PM
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Mark 13:14
You will be hated by everyone on account of My name, but the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

This has nothing to do with the eternal salvation of the soul which is given by the gift of grace. One doesn't have to worry about persevering to the end to receive salvation from eternal death.

What if a Christian was to die tomorrow without the whole world hating him for his belief in Jesus? We're not to that point in the world. Why go out and preach if one day everyone will hate Christians?

This warning is about salvation from the destruction of Jerusalem.
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NE GA Pappy View Post
it was during Daniels time, during the time of Herod, and again at 70ad. Do you think it could happen again, especially since the jews are preparing to build a 3rd Temple? They offered a passover sacrifice in view of the Temple Mount this year, the closest it had been sacrificed in recent years.
Yes I do believe Jerusalem could be destroyed again but I don't believe the Gospel accounts are of a future destruction of Jerusalem.
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:35 PM
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Acts 2:21-23
The sun will be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord. 21And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’ 22Men of Israel, listen to this message: Jesus of Nazareth was a man certified by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know.23He was handed over by God’s set plan and foreknowledge, and you, by the hands of the lawless, put Him to death by nailing Him to the cross.

Notice the address to "Men of Israel"
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by NE GA Pappy View Post
it was during Daniels time, during the time of Herod, and again at 70ad. Do you think it could happen again, especially since the jews are preparing to build a 3rd Temple? They offered a passover sacrifice in view of the Temple Mount this year, the closest it had been sacrificed in recent years.
No. It can't happen again. There are no mosaic Jew's left since 70ad, and that's why that destruction was so important. It was the end of the Old covenant, the Old covenant age, temple sacrifice, the genealogies, the priesthood... All those things in old covenant Mosaic Judaism that pointed to the Messiah are fulfilled.

These people today calling themselves Jew's.. The rabbinic Judaism religion... It's as fake and made up as Islam.
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:36 PM
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"before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord."

Is that a one time event?

I can think of one past coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.

Christ's return, second coming, coming of Jesus, when Jesus returns, etc.
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