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  #301  
Old 04-24-2017, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Israel View Post
What choice does a child have in choosing his father?

And even men who are fathers may acknowledge their children as their own...but be extremely hard pressed to say "I chose you as a particular child" (Out of a million sperm)

Men know happenstance by exception (the exception being ignorance of all being perfectly ordered according to an intent eternal) and live in the world of yes...and no...both toward God...and then in perfect consequence toward one another.
As usual I have no idea what you are saying nor how it pertains to ...........well quiet frankly, anything.
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  #302  
Old 04-24-2017, 03:07 PM
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He is still sovern over creation start to finish, however each individual has free will to accept or reject him.
The second part of your statement renders the first part meaningless.
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I honestly don't see how anyone can dispute our free will.
You may never be enabled to see it. You may never be enabled to recognize your own contradictions.

You may be enabled to continually flop around.
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  #303  
Old 04-24-2017, 04:08 PM
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The second part of your statement renders the first part meaningless.

You may never be enabled to see it. You may never be enabled to recognize your own contradictions.

You may be enabled to continually flop around.
I could ask you to attempt to defend your statements, but I get the distinct impression it would be a waste of your effort and my time, so i won't.
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  #304  
Old 04-24-2017, 07:01 PM
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Banjo Picker is on a roll;

"God's power gives each one "all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue" (2 Pet. 1:3-10)."
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  #305  
Old 04-24-2017, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by hummerpoo View Post
IF it is "the biggie", the first question is "who made it "the biggie"? Scripture doesn't give it that status.

What about them?


If the answers you seek are to be found, it will be in diligent, prayerful study, not by throwing up lists on an internet forum.


So in other words, rather than having an adult discussion with a fellow christian, you choose to not answer any of the questions, defer the person to google, and be snarky in your response.

I'm sure that's exactly what our God had in mind when a Christians asks another for clarity.
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  #306  
Old 04-25-2017, 05:19 AM
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So in other words, rather than having an adult discussion with a fellow christian, you choose to not answer any of the questions, defer the person to google, and be snarky in your response.

I'm sure that's exactly what our God had in mind when a Christians asks another for clarity.
How can you be sure? Didn't you admit to being "legitimately confused"?
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  #307  
Old 04-25-2017, 06:30 AM
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SFD, I think for whatever reason we often find ourselves (you and I) at an impasse. The fault may indeed be with me, God knows.

A man may operate in that place where he is "surprised" to discover another one is a believer...perhaps even as Jesus marvelled at the Centurion's faith...if one can receive that.

But God, the Father? Is there anything unknown to Him, anyone unknown to Him? Jesus deferred to His knowing in all things, about all things, confident the Father, above all knew His own among all, and it is of those Jesus speaks when He says "all that the Father gives me".

Even when speaking to Pilate Jesus asked "do you say this of yourself...or hear it from others?" Jesus well knew, no one could know who He was apart from the Father's work of enlightening by the Spirit. (As with Simon Peter)

That, in some sense is what I was getting at.
The Father always knows "His own". And He has given, without exception, each and every to Jesus..."I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand. My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand."
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Last edited by Israel; 04-25-2017 at 08:34 AM.
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  #308  
Old 04-25-2017, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by egomaniac247 View Post
So in other words, rather than having an adult discussion with a fellow christian, you choose to not answer any of the questions, defer the person to google, and be snarky in your response.

I'm sure that's exactly what our God had in mind when a Christians asks another for clarity.
Sorry, I am inexperienced in having adult conversations with those who think that a to suggest "diligent, prayerful study" is to "defer the person to google".

If you have questions that reflect prior personal spiritual effort through prayer and study, those questions sometimes generate a serious discussion here, usually with elements that are difficult to view as serious.

If you are inexperienced in spiritual study of scripture (that means dedicating as much time as God requires), I would suggest that Matthew 5:17 through the end of the chapter as a good place that relates to your previous post.
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  #309  
Old 04-25-2017, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Israel View Post
SFD, I think for whatever reason we often find ourselves (you and I) at an impasse. The fault may indeed be with me, God knows.

A man may operate in that place where he is "surprised" to discover another one is a believer...perhaps even as Jesus marvelled at the Centurion's faith...if one can receive that.

But God, the Father? Is there anything unknown to Him, anyone unknown to Him? Jesus deferred to His knowing in all things, about all things, confident the Father, above all knew His own among all, and it is of those Jesus speaks when He says "all that the Father gives me".

Even when speaking to Pilate Jesus asked "do you say this of yourself...or hear it from others?" Jesus well knew, no one could know who He was apart from the Father's work of enlightening by the Spirit. (As with Simon Peter)

That, in some sense is what I was getting at.
The Father always knows "His own". And He has given, without exception, each and every to Jesus..."I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand. My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand."
An impass is mostly associated with a disagreement. It's not that I agree or disagree with you. It's that I can't comprehend your post, and I won't bother taking the time to attempt to decipher them just to accommodate your eccentricity.

I tend to agree with C.S. Lewis when he said something to the effect of "If a man can't explain something clearly, in simple terms, he doesn't understand what he's speaking of very well. That is how I feel about your post.

Last edited by SemperFiDawg; 04-25-2017 at 11:43 AM.
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  #310  
Old 04-25-2017, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by SemperFiDawg View Post
An impass is mostly associated with a disagreement. It's not that I agree or disagree with you. It's that I can't comprehend your post, and I won't bother taking the time to attempt to decipher them just to accommodate your eccentricity.

I tend to agree with C.S. Lewis when he said something to the effect of "If a man can't explain something clearly, in simple terms, he doesn't understand what he's speaking of very well. That is how I feel about your post.
I think this is what Israel was saying;

When Jesus came to that place, He looked up and said, "Zacchaeus, hurry down, for I must stay at your house today."

I'll admit, I too have a hard time following him sometimes.
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  #311  
Old 04-25-2017, 11:46 AM
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Sorry, I am inexperienced in having adult conversations with those who think that a to suggest "diligent, prayerful study" is to "defer the person to google".
Ouch!
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  #312  
Old 04-25-2017, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by SemperFiDawg View Post
An impass is mostly associated with a disagreement. It's not that I agree or disagree with you. It's that I can't comprehend your post, and I won't bother taking the time to attempt to decipher them just to accommodate your eccentricity.

I tend to agree with C.S. Lewis when he said something to the effect of "If a man can't explain something clearly, in simple terms, he doesn't understand what he's speaking of very well. That is how I feel about your post.
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  #313  
Old 04-25-2017, 01:07 PM
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I could ask you to attempt to defend your statements, but I get the distinct impression it would be a waste of your effort and my time, so i won't.
"He is still sovern over creation start to finish, however each individual has free will to accept or reject him."
This is an unintelligible statement. Just because you can say something, does not make it logical, meaningful.

Study it and figure it out. Look what you were able to accomplish in one complete sentence.

Absolutely nothing.
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  #314  
Old 04-25-2017, 01:08 PM
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  #315  
Old 04-25-2017, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by gemcgrew View Post
"He is still sovern over creation start to finish, however each individual has free will to accept or reject him."
This is an unintelligible statement. Just because you can say something, does not make it logical, meaningful.

Study it and figure it out. Look what you were able to accomplish in one complete sentence.

Absolutely nothing.
Oh brother Not only an automaton, but one that's stuck repeating himself.

Well I guess you win. Congrats. You just disproved the theory that a being is capable of thought, will and action.

Gonna leave a lot of theologians and philosophers wondering just what Image of God we are made in, but that's beside the point.

Again. Congrats.

P.S. You may want to start studying up on the whole, "God the author of evil" argument the Athiest among others, are bound to bludgeon you with now that you've disproved free-will. Oh! Sorry. Forgot. You're an automaton (i.e. incapable of independent thought); they aren't.
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  #316  
Old 04-25-2017, 02:41 PM
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Oh brother Not only an automaton, but one that's stuck repeating himself.

Well I guess you win. Congrats. You just disproved the theory that a being is capable of thought, will and action.

Gonna leave a lot of theologians and philosophers wondering just what Image of God we are made in, but that's beside the point.

Again. Congrats.
Some good advice.. Maybe.
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  #317  
Old 04-25-2017, 03:54 PM
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Calvinist? Don't know it. None in my Bible, only Christians.
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  #318  
Old 04-25-2017, 05:26 PM
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Calvinist? Don't know it. None in my Bible, only Christians.
There's none here either.
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  #319  
Old 04-25-2017, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by SemperFiDawg View Post
Oh brother Not only an automaton, but one that's stuck repeating himself.

Well I guess you win. Congrats. You just disproved the theory that a being is capable of thought, will and action.

Gonna leave a lot of theologians and philosophers wondering just what Image of God we are made in, but that's beside the point.

Again. Congrats.

P.S. You may want to start studying up on the whole, "God the author of evil" argument the Athiest among others, are bound to bludgeon you with now that you've disproved free-will. Oh! Sorry. Forgot. You're an automaton (i.e. incapable of independent thought); they aren't.
"He is still sovern over creation start to finish, however each individual has free will to accept or reject him."

All that effort and this is still an unintelligible statement.

Perhaps somebody with more patience than me will point it out to you.

Nice attempt at deflection though.
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  #320  
Old 04-25-2017, 05:32 PM
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Calvinist? Don't know it. None in my Bible, only Christians.
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There's none here either.
The majority of Calvinist that I converse with, are just as confused as you two... in regards to this matter.
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  #321  
Old 04-25-2017, 06:53 PM
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"He is still sovern over creation start to finish, however each individual has free will to accept or reject him."

All that effort and this is still an unintelligible statement.

Perhaps somebody with more patience than me will point it out to you.

Nice attempt at deflection though.
Not my strong suit today.
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  #322  
Old 04-25-2017, 07:20 PM
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If we could bring back time to some point before a decision was made, could the person have decided differently? Considering God has already used his omniscience to see what that decision would be.
If God looked ahead and knew that I would cut grass today, could I have decided to cut grass yesterday?
Think of all of the future events that would have to change if we changed the events of today or yesterday.

Perhaps Jesus would not have been the Word, if Adam had not sinned. Perhaps Jesus would not have died on the cross if the Jews has accepted him as their messiah. Maybe that would have meant Saul would not be needed as Paul, and then no gospel to the Gentiles.
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  #323  
Old 04-25-2017, 07:34 PM
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The majority of Calvinist that I converse with, are just as confused as you two... in regards to this matter.
I'm not confused, I'm just playing out events that were planned for me to way back when. I suggest you take it up with God if you don't like it, because I have no control over it.
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  #324  
Old 04-25-2017, 07:34 PM
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Some good advice.. Maybe.
That meme would also apply to a free will believer. Even a believer of Preterism.

What I'm getting at is we each like to present our beliefs as strongly as the next person.

I'm reminded of "70AD"
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  #325  
Old 04-25-2017, 07:38 PM
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I'm not confused, I'm just playing out events that were planned for me to way back when. I suggest you take it up with God if you don't like it, because I have no control over it.
Do you see God in control of the events from Adam to Christ's return in 70AD? Maybe just some of the events?
Do you think man came up with a plan to not kill Jesus so God had to counter their plan with his plan "B"?

"A remnant was elected and the rest were hardened."
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