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  #76  
Old 04-02-2017, 10:19 PM
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What happened to he who is with out sin cast the first stone.

Ask your self what u have committed. Did you pass judgement or quote bible verses.

So everyone in your church has not broken a commandment.
Forgive me father for I have sinned.
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  #77  
Old 04-02-2017, 10:23 PM
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Good day to all.
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  #78  
Old 04-02-2017, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by kmckinnie View Post
What happened to he who is with out sin cast the first stone.
You're talking about the woman caught in adultery, brought to Jesus by the Pharisees. That is a completely different scenario than the OP:

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Originally Posted by centerpin fan View Post
A guy walks into your church and says, “Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. He died for my sins. Because we are in agreement on these key issues, I’d like to join your church. I must tell you, though, that I support myself by working as a gay prostitute. I am in a committed relationship with my boyfriend. We are living together until we can get married. I struggled with reconciling my homosexuality with Christianity for years. After reading several gay Christian websites, though, I now realize that God made me gay, and homosexuality is not a sin.”
What would you say to the guy?
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  #79  
Old 04-02-2017, 10:58 PM
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So there's different adulteration situations.
We can stone the gay couple.
Thanks.
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  #80  
Old 04-02-2017, 11:11 PM
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We can stone the gay couple.
Thanks.
Nobody said anything like that. We've had some very good responses.

What would you say to the guy?
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  #81  
Old 04-03-2017, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by hobbs27 View Post
You misunderstood me. Once we have faith and accept Christ as Lord... Already Christian, then God gives us a measure of faith to see us through. He gives a measure of faith to already saved folks.
So.. to make sure I'm understanding you,.. you're saying man must already have his own faith initially to believe, then God will give him His afterwards?
How can a man who is dead to spiritual things have any faith on his own?

Can you show this in scripture?

I'm reading that there is only one faith.

Eph.4:4-6
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Last edited by welderguy; 04-03-2017 at 06:28 AM.
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  #82  
Old 04-03-2017, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by welderguy View Post
So.. to make sure I'm understanding you,.. you're saying man must already have his own faith initially to believe, then God will give him His afterwards?
How can a man who is dead to spiritual things have any faith on his own?

Can you show this in scripture?

I'm reading that there is only one faith.

Eph.4:4-6
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Welder... The scripture you quote above is out of context of this conversation... Matter of fact if it were it would be against your position since it says concerning "you all" in verse 6 and "ye are called" in vs. 4. I don't think you believe all are called, do you?


To clarify my position which is simple. A non believer will hear the good news, will be drawn by the Spirit and will either believe and take of the water of life.... Or they will reject it, and continue in disbelief.
Those that take it, and believe are then given a measure of faith to sustain them in their walk. A homosexual would have their sin exposed and would turn from that evil doing, just as an adulterer, or swindler, liar, drunkard, etc. No one, homosexual included could possibly say they have been saved by the blood of Christ shed on the cross... And this allows me to continue living in sin. The person if truly saved will feel shame in their lifestyle.
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  #83  
Old 04-03-2017, 09:15 AM
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Welder... The scripture you quote above is out of context of this conversation... Matter of fact if it were it would be against your position since it says concerning "you all" in verse 6 and "ye are called" in vs. 4. I don't think you believe all are called, do you?


To clarify my position which is simple. A non believer will hear the good news, will be drawn by the Spirit and will either believe and take of the water of life.... Or they will reject it, and continue in disbelief.
Those that take it, and believe are then given a measure of faith to sustain them in their walk. A homosexual would have their sin exposed and would turn from that evil doing, just as an adulterer, or swindler, liar, drunkard, etc. No one, homosexual included could possibly say they have been saved by the blood of Christ shed on the cross... And this allows me to continue living in sin. The person if truly saved will feel shame in their lifestyle.
I firmly believe that if a person is drawn by the Spirit, they are going to come. It's an effectual call that we are made willing without any reservations whatsoever. Scripture says He knoweth them that are His.
This "knowing" is much more than being aquainted with us. It's an intimate thing. A oneness in Christ. And it's something that was determined before creation.
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  #84  
Old 04-03-2017, 09:46 AM
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I firmly believe that if a person is drawn by the Spirit, they are going to come. It's an effectual call that we are made willing without any reservations whatsoever. Scripture says He knoweth them that are His.
This "knowing" is much more than being aquainted with us. It's an intimate thing. A oneness in Christ. And it's something that was determined before creation.
I know you believe that, and you put that point of salvation before God made the world, which takes hope away from those born without it, and it makes being born with it a luck of the draw.

Can you point out the ones in your family that are not elected? What would you tell a son or daughter that seeks God, but God never chose them?
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  #85  
Old 04-03-2017, 10:41 AM
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I know you believe that, and you put that point of salvation before God made the world, which takes hope away from those born without it, and it makes being born with it a luck of the draw.

Can you point out the ones in your family that are not elected? What would you tell a son or daughter that seeks God, but God never chose them?
1 Thessalonians 4:13 speaks of these who have no hope. Faith is the substance of things hoped for. And, not all men have faith. It's a scriptural concept. Who can question God and say why have you made me thus?

We all deserve to perish, but God chose to show the exceeding richness of His grace to usward who believe. And it is given to you to believe.

As far as my children's salvation goes, I don't know who is elect. That's God's department. He's sovereign over all His creation.
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  #86  
Old 04-03-2017, 10:46 AM
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What about the folks who never heard the Good News?
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  #87  
Old 04-03-2017, 11:07 AM
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I believe you guys get hung in one camp on this elected/called/pre-0rdained stuff.

The truth is that God knows beforehand. God - has scripture says - foreknows. He exists in a plane that we can only imagine, and then just the most minor parts of it. God always foreknows everything. It is like He is living in the past of our tomorrows.

Scripture says, those he fore knew, he pre-ordained. Yes, we have freewill, and we get to choose, but God knows those choices before they are ever made. So God fore knows. Since He knows beforehand, He can and will preordain that salvation. Yet, He gives us free choice to choose how we will live and if we will serve Him.

The truth of the matter is Yes, God fore knows. Yes, God pre-ordains, and Yes, we have free choice.

Without God, I can't, but without me, He won't. And He knows upfront Who, Why, What,When and How.
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  #88  
Old 04-03-2017, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by centerpin fan View Post
… and says, “Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. He died for my sins. Because we are in agreement on these key issues, I’d like to join your church. I must tell you, though, that I support myself by working as a gay prostitute. I am in a committed relationship with my boyfriend. We are living together until we can get married. I struggled with reconciling my homosexuality with Christianity for years. After reading several gay Christian websites, though, I now realize that God made me gay, and homosexuality is not a sin.”

What would your response be?

a) "Welcome brother! You sound like 'deacon material' ”!

b) “As a sinner saved by grace, I welcome you. For the sake of your soul, though, I must quote the Apostle Peter in Acts 3: ‘Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.’ ”

c) Something else.

Please elaborate if “c” is your choice.
After re-reading this, I think I would tell the guy that regardless of his (questionable) salvation the Church is a place where people come, in part, to seek help in overcoming sin, not to condone it.

Last edited by SemperFiDawg; 04-03-2017 at 12:48 PM.
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  #89  
Old 04-03-2017, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by NE GA Pappy View Post
I believe you guys get hung in one camp on this elected/called/pre-0rdained stuff.

The truth is that God knows beforehand. God - has scripture says - foreknows. He exists in a plane that we can only imagine, and then just the most minor parts of it. God always foreknows everything. It is like He is living in the past of our tomorrows.

Scripture says, those he fore knew, he pre-ordained. Yes, we have freewill, and we get to choose, but God knows those choices before they are ever made. So God fore knows. Since He knows beforehand, He can and will preordain that salvation. Yet, He gives us free choice to choose how we will live and if we will serve Him.

The truth of the matter is Yes, God fore knows. Yes, God pre-ordains, and Yes, we have free choice.

Without God, I can't, but without me, He won't. And He knows upfront Who, Why, What,When and How.
But I see a flaw in this way of thinking. It says that God based His salvation on something we did/had. Then it's no longer unmerited favor(grace). It is based on merit.
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  #90  
Old 04-03-2017, 11:42 AM
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But I see a flaw in this way of thinking. It says that God based His salvation on something we did/had. Then it's no longer unmerited favor(grace). It is based on merit.
Absolutely it is grace that saves. It is offered without us doing anything. It is offered to each and everyone. It is up to us to make a decision. God doesn't force us to serve Him, He lets us decide.

God doesn't sit in heaven on His throne going "eny, meeny, miney, mo.... I pick this one to save, and the rest go to H E double hockey sticks.

He offers to all salvation, as a free gift.

As in Duet. - I place before you life and death. Choose Life.
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  #91  
Old 04-03-2017, 11:48 AM
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What about the folks who never heard the Good News?
He.8:11
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.


Holy Spirit regeneration.
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  #92  
Old 04-03-2017, 11:50 AM
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The flaw with freewill and God's foreknowledge is, it doesn't allow for "whosoever will" as whosoever will already has. I can't change what God has already seen.
So it ends up being the same as predestination. The end result is the same.
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  #93  
Old 04-03-2017, 11:54 AM
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Romans 11:5-6
In the same way, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6And if it is by grace, then it is no longer by works. Otherwise, grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 8:29
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

2 Timothy 1:9
Who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,

I don't think it's "eny, meeny, miney, mo" but it's definitely not because of anything we do. It's for God's own purpose and grace.
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  #94  
Old 04-03-2017, 02:54 PM
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1 Thessalonians 4:13 speaks of these who have no hope. Faith is the substance of things hoped for. And, not all men have faith. It's a scriptural concept. Who can question God and say why have you made me thus?

We all deserve to perish, but God chose to show the exceeding richness of His grace to usward who believe. And it is given to you to believe.

As far as my children's salvation goes, I don't know who is elect. That's God's department. He's sovereign over all His creation.
1 Thess. 4:13 is Paul's comforting to those first century Christians that their loved ones would be raised... Do not sorrow like those without hope.

Faith is in our court. I could have rejected His calling... Matter of fact I think rejecting it would have been easier than accepting and confessing it. The measure of faith I got after this came in times of weakness. I can never go back to being an unbeliever, as I once was.
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Last edited by hobbs27; 04-03-2017 at 04:21 PM.
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  #95  
Old 04-05-2017, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by welderguy View Post
I firmly believe that if a person is drawn by the Spirit, they are going to come. It's an effectual call that we are made willing without any reservations whatsoever. Scripture says He knoweth them that are His.
This "knowing" is much more than being aquainted with us. It's an intimate thing. A oneness in Christ. And it's something that was determined before creation.
You can believe what you want but the Bible says
“Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.”
CensoredCensoredActs‬ Censored26:28‬ CensoredKJV‬‬
http://bible.com/1/act.26.28.kjv

Agrippa said almost. The Spirit was drawing through God yet he still refused and said almost
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  #96  
Old 04-06-2017, 04:43 PM
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Sorry if I hurt someone's feelings here but that tears my heart to think he might choose my girl and not my son and my son has no hope.
Whereas I praise God in either case. I do not place my feelings or your standards above my reverence of God.
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  #97  
Old 04-06-2017, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by NE GA Pappy View Post
It is offered without us doing anything.
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Originally Posted by NE GA Pappy View Post
It is up to us to make a decision.
The contradiction should be obvious.
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  #98  
Old 04-06-2017, 05:11 PM
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Whereas I praise God in either case. I do not place my feelings or your standards above my reverence of God.
You praise God if he sends you child to he11.
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  #99  
Old 04-06-2017, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by hobbs27 View Post
I know you believe that, and you put that point of salvation before God made the world, which takes hope away from those born without it, and it makes being born with it a luck of the draw.

Can you point out the ones in your family that are not elected? What would you tell a son or daughter that seeks God, but God never chose them?

100% amen right here brother. I would hate to believe I had to tell my 2 precious kids. "Well I hope God has elected you and you make it to Heaven". What a crying shame to believe in election. Sorry if I hurt someone's feelings here but that tears my heart to think he might choose my girl and not my son and my son has no hope. Sure am glad the Bible says "not WILLING any should perish but all come to repentance". It is Gods will for all to be saved. Problem is people reject the Lord.
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  #100  
Old 04-06-2017, 05:57 PM
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You praise God if he sends you child to he11.
Of course. Are you suggesting that if God sends my son to he11, that God is wrong in doing that?
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