Is Hebrews 11:3 corrupted?

Is this verse corrupted in scripture?

Hebrews 11:3King James Version (KJV)
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
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And are things which are seen such as logic itself not made of things that appear logical?

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In the beginning was the Word(1), and the Word was with God (2), and the Word was God(3).

Does this make more sense if I read it by faith or by logic?

This my imperfect faith-logic read:

1) In the beginning was the Word. Yes, because as far as we know everything was framed by the word of God. By faith it is only after it is framed by the word that this could make sense as far as understanding the worlds is concerned, including the world of faith, in the beginning was the Word.

2) The Word was with God. Hum? Is the word "us" in the creation dialogue " let us make them in our image" a synonym for an understanding of the Creator as the"Word with God", that is that the expressions of God were with and within Him before he said them? Remember the writer of Hebrews says the word of God frames the worlds.... Words are hatched within me before I say or write them... hum. Leaving all semblance that would want to appeal to logic, I leap in faith that here we have a "spiritual view" of the Holy Spirit in that God's expression is synonymous to His essence or all being. Which would make it obvious that in the beginning was the Word as far as man is concerned...logically and in faith.

3) The Word was God. Was Jesus the Word of God? The whole scheme of words written by John concerning his description of Jesus, is John understanding that Jesus was God?

" And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:3

So what is the framework to address the meaning that Jesus was God? The framework and worlds of faith or the framework and worlds of logic? I say faith. It is only trough faith that John is talking with certainty. Paul says that this faith world is foolishness to the world if I understand correctly. The world he refers to here must be a world not framed by the Word, because the worlds formed by the Word cannot be foolishness to themselves , but by some other algorithm, other than faith the worlds of faith are foolishness to the worlds formed outside.

It is such, my view, in my most intimate view, absorbed in faith, and as much as possible divorced of the influences of the corrupting worlds, or even divorced of the biases of the righteous world if that is possible, and consistent with Hebrews 11:3 that the expression by Christians of God as trinity is not an error of faith and is especially consistent to Christian faith.

My .02cents.

gordon 2 said:

Is this verse corrupted in scripture?

Hebrews 11:3King James Version (KJV)
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
----------------------
And are things which are seen such as logic itself not made of things that appear logical?

--------------------
In the beginning was the Word(1), and the Word was with God (2), and the Word was God(3).

Does this make more sense if I read it by faith or by logic?

This my imperfect faith-logic read:

1) In the beginning was the Word. Yes, because as far as we know everything was framed by the word of God. By faith it is only after it is framed by the word that this could make sense as far as understanding the worlds is concerned, including the world of faith, in the beginning was the Word.

2) The Word was with God. Hum? Is the word "us" in the creation dialogue " let us make them in our image" a synonym for an understanding of the Creator as the"Word with God", that is that the expressions of God were with and within Him before he said them? Remember the writer of Hebrews says the word of God frames the worlds.... Words are hatched within me before I say or write them... hum. Leaving all semblance that would want to appeal to logic, I leap in faith that here we have a "spiritual view" of the Holy Spirit in that God's expression is synonymous to His essence or all being. Which would make it obvious that in the beginning was the Word as far as man is concerned...logically and in faith.

3) The Word was God. Was Jesus the Word of God? The whole scheme of words written by John concerning his description of Jesus, is John understanding that Jesus was God?

" And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:3

So what is the framework to address the meaning that Jesus was God? The framework and worlds of faith or the framework and worlds of logic? I say faith. It is only trough faith that John is talking with certainty. Paul says that this faith world is foolishness to the world if I understand correctly. The world he refers to here must be a world not framed by the Word, because the worlds formed by the Word cannot be foolishness to themselves , but by some other algorithm, other than faith the worlds of faith are foolishness to the worlds formed outside.

It is such, my view, in my most intimate view, absorbed in faith, and as much as possible divorced of the influences of the corrupting worlds, or even divorced of the biases of the righteous world if that is possible, and consistent with Hebrews 11:3 that the expression by Christians of God as trinity is not an error of faith and is especially consistent to Christian faith.

My .02cents.

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There are two different worlds here being discussed. One is the created World, the other is the non believing world, meaning the people , the system. The World that God created is Cosmos. The world Paul is referring to is the non believing members of this world. That might be why you are confused a bit. The reason it is foolishness to the world is because they do not believe in God, nor do they acknowledge Him as God. So their foolish hearts have become darkened.

Here is the definition. One has to understand that we are wasting our time analyzing a biased translation.
It is "ages", not world. We have plenty of context involving "ages" age of law, age of grace and the age to come.

The greek word used:
Transliteration: aión
Phonetic Spelling: (ahee-ohn')
Short Definition: an age, a cycle of time
Definition: an age, a cycle (of time), especially of the present age as contrasted with the future age, and of one of a series of ages stretching to infinity.

Your number 1, In the beginning was the word, God spoke and "it was". His word was the beginning.
2, the word was with God, better thought of as if "with held", until times reached fullfillment set forth by God. I was created in word in the beginning, but I was with held until 52 years ago. 3, The actual translation is not the word was God but rather God was the word. Sounds the same however, God is unknowable, unimaginable, we could never know him other than by what he does. As with the phrase "you are what you eat" eat healthy and your healthy, God is what he does.

More, "Were framed or were made" . Not a hint of created, my point being to validate my earlier post of "ages" not "worlds"
Here is the greek
Original Word: κατα�τίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katartizó
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ar-tid'-zo)
Short Definition: I fit together, prepare
Definition: (a) I fit (join) together; met: I compact together, (b) act. and mid: I prepare, perfect, for his (its) full destination or use, bring into its proper condition (whether for the first time, or after a lapse).

The Word is Simply Jesus,
You are not all in the Word before salvation. The Holy Spirit brings us to the Word. Does the Holy Spirit protect us in order to bring us to a decision about salvation,,, I believe so.

Wouldn't we be in Word before salvation in the form of the Holy Spirit protecting us?

I think we would be in sin, We still have to be presented the option to be saved and might not choose correctly and continue in sin.

marketgunner said:

I think we would be in sin, We still have to be presented the option to be saved and might not choose correctly and continue in sin.

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Then I guess your idea of foreknowledge is a bit different from what God's definition is. His is the Word. He knew from the beginning we would need the Word. Therefore the Word was with God. It actually "was" God.

I thought this was what you meant when you said, "Does the Holy Spirit protect us in order to bring us to a decision about salvation,,, I believe so."

Sounds like a good pro-Trinity observation. You have election by the Father, being protected by the Holy Spirit, until the Son is revealed by the Father, who draws them to the Son.
I can't think of anything more Trinitarian than that. It's the perfect picture of Unity or Oneness within the Trinity.