I would like your answers to this if you are so inclined....

stringmusic said:

Yes, I'm sure that Jesus, His disciples, and His followers decided to start a rebellion against a government that was sure to murder them over that rebellion, they all had a death wish. Great theory, although not your own, surely you see the irrationality of it.

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News Flash:
Jesus and followers were not the only ones put to death for rebelling against gov't and religion during that time period.

More at 11......

bullethead said:

News Flash:
Jesus and followers were not the only ones put to death for rebelling against gov't and religion during that time period.

More at 11......

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I won't need to tune in at 11, that wasn't my argument.

stringmusic said:

I won't need to tune in at 11, that wasn't my argument.

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Irrationality was your argument?

“Jesus and followers were not the only ones put to death for rebelling against gov't and religion during that time period.

More at 11......”

Um? That was my point.

EVERYONE who rebelled against authority was put to death, to make an example. Add to this fact, the fact that very few people could read or write. Add to those facts the fact that nothing at all was written in any form about the first THIRTY YEARS of the life of the Jesus figure. Add to THAT the fact that nothing at all was written about even the last three years of the life of the Jesus figure until anywhere between forty and seventy YEARS (depending of who you rely upon for this dating) after the execution. Then take THOSE very few writings, and compare them to each other.

THEN toss into the mix a few thousand years of infighting, factionalization, splits, schisms, purges, rewritings, enforced burning of competing writings and writers, terror campaigns, inquisitions, and the authoritative elimination of dissent that goes on to this day – and THERE you have the basis of modern Belief, in a nutshell.

There really isn’t very much to recommend it as something you would put up against, say, Jesus popping onto the Leno Show to make sure that His message hasn’t been garbled up into a pile of odd distortions that have served only to solidify and maintain the power of the few over the many.

Because that is the truth of what has happened, if there actually was such a figure who actually had such a short ministry that actually became what we see of it today. One would think, quite reasonably, that any such God-figure would be appalled, and might set things straight after only two thousand years. If the Creationists are right, nobody at all has heard or seen a thing in over a third of the time that all of Creation has existed.

That seems a bit lazy.

agreed

TheBishop said:

Its exactly how one of my heros saw him. Thomas Jefferson, he even wrote his own bible void of all the miracles and the resurrection.

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Sounds like an alltime number one seller....was it?

bullethead said:

News Flash:
Jesus and followers were not the only ones put to death for rebelling against gov't and religion during that time period.

More at 11......

Click to expand...

News flash?

Does that mean you think we're too stupid to know that? And since you must......why don't you tell us who they were? and I'm expecting you to back it up with "scripture/history/facts".....not just some made up fantasy. And if you can't, I'm not gonna go asearchin' for it like you always expect us to do....just back it up with sumpin for a change....otay? What religion etc etc.

ambush80 said:

I used to think he had long blonde hair, blue eyes and carried a lamb around with him wherever he went. I prayed to him when I was afraid of the dark. Then I thought he was dark complected and had black hair and brown eyes and that he was a philosopher that people greatly admired. I stopped being afraid of the dark and didn't pray to him anymore. Now I don't think about him much except when I see what belief in him does to people.

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Wow.....someone didn't teach you right....no wonder you think like you do about it. No one ever told me anything like that at all.....I guess those same people told you not to get out of the bed because there were bears under the bed and if you got up the bears would drag you under the bed....great teachers....I bet they told you there were monsters in the closet watching you and Jesus would send you to hades if you didn't go to sleep in 15 minutes, too, didn't they?.....that was a lie from satan. I feel sorry for how you were raised....you were sorely misled.

dexrusjak said:

Jesus existed but was completely human - - no virgin birth, no miracles, no resurrection, etc.

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Prove it.

Four said:

I really never think about it to be honest, if i hear someone referring to Jesus Christ, I immediate think "not real" or so, i generally don't consider the historical figure.

Without researching the historical evidence, i think its a good possibility that it wasn't even one person. Jesus is basically a common first name, similar to Josh, and christ isn't a real last name, its a title.

So with something so ambiguous it could easily be a "john doe" type name given to a collection of people that caused some philosophical trouble for the Jews.

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Sort of like if you aren't of Christ you are of the group of the antiChrist? it can only be one or the other. Just wondering.

mtnwoman said:

Sort of like if you aren't of Christ you are of the group of the antiChrist? it can only be one or the other. Just wondering.

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I suppose, I would think of it as a-Christ vs. anti-Christ. But no more am I apart of the anti-Thor, and anti-Shiva, and anti-Muhammad..

I just prefer atheist in general.

Apocalyptic cult leader?

I thought this was not supposed to turn into a debate.

Is that possible in a religion or politics forum ?

I saw Jesus the other night on "Family Guy." I think he is funny!!!

Sounds like most agree that he existed (though some obviously don't), that he wasn't anything more than a man....and that somehow people chose to write a book about that real person and ascribe to him very fake (and honestly pretty outlandish if they were) miracles and then successfully sold it to the world.

John Grisham ain't got nothin' on Paul.

Huntinfool said:

Sounds like most agree that he existed (though some obviously don't), that he wasn't anything more than a man....and that somehow people chose to write a book about that real person and ascribe to him very fake (and honestly pretty outlandish if they were) miracles and then successfully sold it to the world.

John Grisham ain't got nothin' on Paul.

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Yeah sort of like Mohammed... or some of the modern day cult leaders that manage to convince people they have some special relationship to a deity.

Huntinfool said:

Sounds like most agree that he existed (though some obviously don't), that he wasn't anything more than a man....and that somehow people chose to write a book about that real person and ascribe to him very fake (and honestly pretty outlandish if they were) miracles and then successfully sold it to the world.

John Grisham ain't got nothin' on Paul.

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Whats also amazing is the motley crew he used to wright the bible and the 12 he used to spread the gospel.....Apart from Paul, who was highly educated, the others would have had a basic education in the Mosaic Law and in their Hebrew faith.Two were fishermen, and another two sons of a fisherman.A hated tax collector,a tent maker who persecuted Christians and was present when Stephen was stoned to death for his faith, and looked on with approval.....Sounds like this Jesus fellow had it "going on"

atlashunter said:

Yeah sort of like Mohammed... or some of the modern day cult leaders that manage to convince people they have some special relationship to a deity.

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I should know this, but I don't. Have things on the level of raising people from the dead and sacrificing himself to sell the lie been ascribed to other modern day cult leaders? Mohammed?

Huntinfool said:

I should know this, but I don't. Have things on the level of raising people from the dead and sacrificing himself to sell the lie been ascribed to other modern day cult leaders? Mohammed?

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Miracles have been attributed to both Mohammed and modern cult leaders, much like the case with Jesus. Have any of these claims actually been demonstrated to be true? Not a single one.

Jesus also exhibits some behaviors in the bible that are typical to cult leaders. He instructs followers to sell everything they have and follow him without giving a thought for the morrow.

Luke 14:26 If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.

That sounds much like something you could hear Jim Jones, David Koresh, or Wayne Bent say.

The question is, is that account of him accurate? Maybe he never even said these things? Maybe he never really claimed to be the messiah and was killed on behalf of the Pharisees for political reasons. But if the accounts are accurate in this respect it strikes me as the personality of a cult leader.

Huntinfool said:

Sounds like most agree that he existed (though some obviously don't), that he wasn't anything more than a man....and that somehow people chose to write a book about that real person and ascribe to him very fake (and honestly pretty outlandish if they were) miracles and then successfully sold it to the world.

John Grisham ain't got nothin' on Paul.

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Ever heard of Sathya Sai Baba?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sathya_Sai_Baba#Reputation_for_miracles_and_clairvoyance