A guy walks into your church ...

hobbs27 said:

You misunderstood me. Once we have faith and accept Christ as Lord... Already Christian, then God gives us a measure of faith to see us through. He gives a measure of faith to already saved folks.

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welderguy said:

So.. to make sure I'm understanding you,.. you're saying man must already have his own faith initially to believe, then God will give him His afterwards?
How can a man who is dead to spiritual things have any faith on his own?

Can you show this in scripture?

I'm reading that there is only one faith.

Eph.4:4-6
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

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hobbs27 said:

Welder... The scripture you quote above is out of context of this conversation... Matter of fact if it were it would be against your position since it says concerning "you all" in verse 6 and "ye are called" in vs. 4. I don't think you believe all are called, do you?


To clarify my position which is simple. A non believer will hear the good news, will be drawn by the Spirit and will either believe and take of the water of life.... Or they will reject it, and continue in disbelief.
Those that take it, and believe are then given a measure of faith to sustain them in their walk. A homosexual would have their sin exposed and would turn from that evil doing, just as an adulterer, or swindler, liar, drunkard, etc. No one, homosexual included could possibly say they have been saved by the blood of Christ shed on the cross... And this allows me to continue living in sin. The person if truly saved will feel shame in their lifestyle.

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welderguy said:

I firmly believe that if a person is drawn by the Spirit, they are going to come. It's an effectual call that we are made willing without any reservations whatsoever. Scripture says He knoweth them that are His.
This "knowing" is much more than being aquainted with us. It's an intimate thing. A oneness in Christ. And it's something that was determined before creation.

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hobbs27 said:

I know you believe that, and you put that point of salvation before God made the world, which takes hope away from those born without it, and it makes being born with it a luck of the draw.

Can you point out the ones in your family that are not elected? What would you tell a son or daughter that seeks God, but God never chose them?

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centerpin fan said:

… and says, “Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. He died for my sins. Because we are in agreement on these key issues, I’d like to join your church. I must tell you, though, that I support myself by working as a gay prostitute. I am in a committed relationship with my boyfriend. We are living together until we can get married. I struggled with reconciling my homosexuality with Christianity for years. After reading several gay Christian websites, though, I now realize that God made me gay, and homosexuality is not a sin.”

What would your response be?

a) "Welcome brother! You sound like 'deacon material' ”!

b) “As a sinner saved by grace, I welcome you. For the sake of your soul, though, I must quote the Apostle Peter in Acts 3: ‘Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.’ ”

c) Something else.

Please elaborate if “c” is your choice.

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NE GA Pappy said:

I believe you guys get hung in one camp on this elected/called/pre-0rdained stuff.

The truth is that God knows beforehand. God - has scripture says - foreknows. He exists in a plane that we can only imagine, and then just the most minor parts of it. God always foreknows everything. It is like He is living in the past of our tomorrows.

Scripture says, those he fore knew, he pre-ordained. Yes, we have freewill, and we get to choose, but God knows those choices before they are ever made. So God fore knows. Since He knows beforehand, He can and will preordain that salvation. Yet, He gives us free choice to choose how we will live and if we will serve Him.

The truth of the matter is Yes, God fore knows. Yes, God pre-ordains, and Yes, we have free choice.

Without God, I can't, but without me, He won't. And He knows upfront Who, Why, What,When and How.

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welderguy said:

But I see a flaw in this way of thinking. It says that God based His salvation on something we did/had. Then it's no longer unmerited favor(grace). It is based on merit.

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Artfuldodger said:

What about the folks who never heard the Good News?

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welderguy said:

1 Thessalonians 4:13 speaks of these who have no hope. Faith is the substance of things hoped for. And, not all men have faith. It's a scriptural concept. Who can question God and say why have you made me thus?

We all deserve to perish, but God chose to show the exceeding richness of His grace to usward who believe. And it is given to you to believe.

As far as my children's salvation goes, I don't know who is elect. That's God's department. He's sovereign over all His creation.

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welderguy said:

I firmly believe that if a person is drawn by the Spirit, they are going to come. It's an effectual call that we are made willing without any reservations whatsoever. Scripture says He knoweth them that are His.
This "knowing" is much more than being aquainted with us. It's an intimate thing. A oneness in Christ. And it's something that was determined before creation.

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mwilliams80 said:

Sorry if I hurt someone's feelings here but that tears my heart to think he might choose my girl and not my son and my son has no hope.

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NE GA Pappy said:

It is offered without us doing anything.

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NE GA Pappy said:

It is up to us to make a decision.

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gemcgrew said:

Whereas I praise God in either case. I do not place my feelings or your standards above my reverence of God.

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hobbs27 said:

I know you believe that, and you put that point of salvation before God made the world, which takes hope away from those born without it, and it makes being born with it a luck of the draw.

Can you point out the ones in your family that are not elected? What would you tell a son or daughter that seeks God, but God never chose them?

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mwilliams80 said:

You praise God if he sends you child to he11.

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