Do you have to be good to go to heaven?

rjcruiser

Senior Member
Make sure no one deceives you.
Some will bring up the thief on the cross. Make sure no one deceives you. What I write is for you, not for the thief. Make sure no one deceives you. There's a million unanswerable questions concerning the thief. Make sure no one deceives you.
You are not the thief. Make sure no one deceives you.
"the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning."


How is bringing up the thief on the cross being deceitful?


Are we not to search the scriptures like the Bereans in Acts 17:11?


How do we keep from being deceived?
 

Ronnie T

Ol' Retired Mod
1John 3:7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother."

*If these verses are too difficult, bring another issue into the equation. Use the thief to prove that these words, and all the others words of the Gospel don't actually mean what they say.
That cannot mean what they say if the thief................

Before His death, Jesus had a word for the thief. After Jesus' death and resurrection, Jesus had a word for us.... The Gospel.
Do not be deceived.
 

rjcruiser

Senior Member
Before His death, Jesus had a word for the thief. After Jesus' death and resurrection, Jesus had a word for us.... The Gospel.
Do not be deceived.

Are you saying that the gospel/how one gains eternal life changed from one way before Christ's death to something different after His death/resurection?

I thought that the book of Hebrews solved that one for us.
 

Ronnie T

Ol' Retired Mod
Are you saying that the gospel/how one gains eternal life changed from one way before Christ's death to something different after His death/resurection?

I thought that the book of Hebrews solved that one for us.

Does the writer of Hebrews nullify the writings of IJohn?

1John 3:7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother."
 

rjcruiser

Senior Member
Does the writer of Hebrews nullify the writings of IJohn?

1John 3:7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother."

No. Rather, it clarifies I John. And so does the thief on the cross.

Scripture interprets scripture.

However, in your case (and possibly in the case of the youth minister's wife), when you focus on just one or two verses, you can twist scripture to say whatever you want.


Why do you dance around the question I asked? Do you not believe that the thief is in Heaven today? Do you not believe that there can be death bed conversions?
 

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
The thief is in Heaven because he was saved and then died. I don't think he had much time to do much of any kind of living a righteous or sinful life after he was saved. What you do before you are saved doesn't count against you. What you do afterwards does.
If you are saved and can do what you want, what will blasphemy against the Holy Spirit get you? It's got to be one way or the other.
 

rjcruiser

Senior Member
The thief is in Heaven because he was saved and then died. I don't think he had much time to do much of any kind of living a righteous or sinful life after he was saved. What you do before you are saved doesn't count against you.

Right. So therefore, the answer to the OP is no, you don't have to be "good" to be saved.

Artfuldodger said:
What you do afterwards does.
If you are saved and can do what you want, what will blasphemy against the Holy Spirit get you? It's got to be one way or the other.

Correct again.

If you are truly saved, you won't do what you want, but will do what God wants. And when you do sin, you'll repent. After all, like RonnieT has posted numerous times, the righteous will act like it.

Those works will not guarantee salvation, but rather, they are evidence of it.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
If you are saved and can do what you want, what will blasphemy against the Holy Spirit get you? It's got to be one way or the other.

This depends on what you consider blasphemy of the Holy Spirit to be...I've studied it pretty deep and my conclusion is that to blaspheme the Holy Spirit is to deny the calling to salvation..when beckoned.
Therefore if you are already saved you can't commit blasphemy because you have accepted the Holy Spirit and not denied.
 

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
This depends on what you consider blasphemy of the Holy Spirit to be...I've studied it pretty deep and my conclusion is that to blaspheme the Holy Spirit is to deny the calling to salvation..when beckoned.
Therefore if you are already saved you can't commit blasphemy because you have accepted the Holy Spirit and not denied.

At least you admit someone has a choice to accept Jesus or not.
I've had a coworker witness to me and others in our shop and I could feel the power of the Holy Spirit like he wanted to electrify me, but I didn't let him do it. Since i'm already saved , hopefully that didn't count as to what you are talking about.
 

barryl

Senior Member
Law

This depends on what you consider blasphemy of the Holy Spirit to be...I've studied it pretty deep and my conclusion is that to blaspheme the Holy Spirit is to deny the calling to salvation..when beckoned.
Therefore if you are already saved you can't commit blasphemy because you have accepted the Holy Spirit and not denied.
According to my Bible, blaspheming the Holy Ghost is in Mark 3 29-30 Come on people, get out from under the LAW !!!
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
At least you admit someone has a choice to accept Jesus or not.
I've had a coworker witness to me and others in our shop and I could feel the power of the Holy Spirit like he wanted to electrify me, but I didn't let him do it. Since i'm already saved , hopefully that didn't count as to what you are talking about.

What you felt was within you, not your co-worker.:)
 

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
What you felt was within you, not your co-worker.:)

Exactly, but I didn't allow him to fully compell me. I guess I felt it would be too embarassing if I got up and started acting how i was beginning to feel. If I had been in Church that would have been different.
 

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
Right. So therefore, the answer to the OP is no, you don't have to be "good" to be saved.
QUOTE]

You are correct, you got me on a technicality. The same would be true for a 15 year old who accepted Jesus at Church and died on his way out the door. He didn't have time to be good or bad.
 

thedeacon

Senior Member
Of course you have to be good to be a Christian.

Not according to the standards of man.
They are to strict.

You must be good according to the standards
set by God.

You don't have to be good to become a Christian.
Christianity REQUIRES repentance, that means
you leave the evil and embrace the good.

You can be bad, accept Christ and be good just
a mille second later.

We can never assume our definetions of words
are the same as Gods.

Just my opinion, God bless
 

Ronnie T

Ol' Retired Mod
No. Rather, it clarifies I John. And so does the thief on the cross.

Scripture interprets scripture.

However, in your case (and possibly in the case of the youth minister's wife), when you focus on just one or two verses, you can twist scripture to say whatever you want.


Why do you dance around the question I asked? Do you not believe that the thief is in Heaven today? Do you not believe that there can be death bed conversions?

I hope you don't think I'm twisting scripture simply because I'd like to stick with one thing at the time.
What John wrote in his first letter didn't reference the thief and it has absolutely nothing to do with the thief.

I might be wrong, but I don't believe the thief on the cross was ever mentioned again after Jesus was buried.
So I'd say he isn't germane.
But he is a great diversion.
But he can also be used deceptively.

1John 3:7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil;

*Personally, I believe the word "practices" is a key word here. No one loses salvation through a sin.
But the one who "practices" sin is not walking in the light.
 

grizlbr

Member
Recently the young wife of a youth minister told me that "a person doesn't have to be good to go to heaven".

Is that really a true statement?
Yes! with a name : grizlbr? Think Im sweet and cuddly? But you will see me in heaven! I know Jesus. I think I just passed the first requirement! Claim Jesus now and he will claim you when you get there: Heaven! Sounds too easy. I knew someone So mean: he took wife's tires off her car to prevent her driving to church. He was an usher at the end of the story.
:clap:
 

Ronnie T

Ol' Retired Mod
Yes! with a name : grizlbr? Think Im sweet and cuddly? But you will see me in heaven! I know Jesus. I think I just passed the first requirement! Claim Jesus now and he will claim you when you get there: Heaven! Sounds too easy. I knew someone So mean: he took wife's tires off her car to prevent her driving to church. He was an usher at the end of the story.
:clap:

I'll bet he became a "good" usher.
But he shouldn't have took his wife's tires. :bounce:
 

Kawaliga

Gone but not forgotten
Ronnie T, How many people do you know that don't sin on a pretty regular basis after they are saved, and some of the same sins over and over at that. A few examples are: gossip, thinking lustful thoughts about women, pride, and oh by the way, a little white lie now and then. If you say that after you are saved, and you continue to sin you are of the devil, then there are a lot of us in SW Georgia that are going to he11. This thing can get pretty complicated and confusing if you are really honest with yourself.
 

Ronnie T

Ol' Retired Mod
Ronnie T, How many people do you know that don't sin on a pretty regular basis after they are saved, and some of the same sins over and over at that. A few examples are: gossip, thinking lustful thoughts about women, pride, and oh by the way, a little white lie now and then. If you say that after you are saved, and you continue to sin you are of the devil, then there are a lot of us in SW Georgia that are going to he11. This thing can get pretty complicated and confusing if you are really honest with yourself.

You pegged me pretty well. Thankfully, sin ain't gonna keep me away from my lord.
Being "good" isn't going to get you or myself into heaven.
But that doesn't mean it's proper to tell someone "you don't have to be good to go to heaven".
 

Ronnie T

Ol' Retired Mod
I was just thinking..... I wonder if any of the inspired New Testament writers ever told a person to "now that you've been saved, go on with your life, you don't have to be good"?
 
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