Is my atheist dad in heaven?

ambush80 · Apr 24, 2018

atlashunter said:
Being delusional and thinking a third party is talking to you inside your head is bad enough as it is. Thinking that voice is an authority figure ups the ante. Thinking that voice holds absolute authority really ups the ante. If a voice in my head says to kill someone even if I’m convinced the voice isn’t me their command is still subject to reason. I can question it. I can weigh the pros and cons of carrying out the command. I can question the morality of it. And if I conclude the command isn’t just or the cons outweigh the pros I have no fear of retribution if I disobey. Even though I’m suffering from a delusion I still have the safeguard of my own reason. The god delusion short circuits that safeguard. It says that what god commands is moral by virtue of his having commanded it. That I am in no position to question and face the potential of eternal torment if I disobey. Now if you can’t say how this is as ambush said, potentially dangerous then I don’t know what to tell you. It may be that this voice only tells the person to do good things in which case no bad comes from it. But the point remains that the natural safeguard of reason has been bypassed in their mind and all it would take is for their delusion to steer them wrong. And it doesn’t even have to be malicious. A parent believes god has told them prayer will heal their child if they act in faith by not going to a doctor. They don’t intend to hurt the child and they don’t believe the voice has that intent either but the result can still be destructive because they’ve surrendered reason to delusion.

Well said.

ambush80 · Apr 24, 2018

atlashunter said:
If he is omniscient then he will be cognizant of every expression of suffering. Forever.

He CAN make a burrito so hot that even He can't eat it.....but He can eat it too.

Don't ask me how. Lay it at the foot of the cross.

oldfella1962 · Apr 24, 2018

WaltL1 said:
If He11 was created by an all knowing God, could there be a "suddenly"?
God didn't know he was going to eventually need a 4 bedroom he11 instead of a 1 bedroom?

so if you were 450 pounds of fat when you died would your resurrected body bound for Hades be 450 pounds of fat too? With the developed world getting fatter by the minute now god has to make hades even bigger (or charge them double like on some airlines).

oldfella1962 · Apr 24, 2018

atlashunter said:
Fear me and love me. Or else you’ll be sorry. Doesn’t sound like a healthy relationship.

No kidding! Choose one or the other. I guess maybe you can love & fear someone at the same time like your parents when you are a kid. It's all about obedience and overlooking the "do as I say, not as I do!" things and accepting "because I said so!" as an answer.

There's a Tom Waits song (I think it's Heart Attack and Vine) that goes "there ain't no devil, that's just god when he's drunk."

ambush80 · Apr 24, 2018

oldfella1962 said:
so if you were 450 pounds of fat when you died would your resurrected body bound for Hades be 450 pounds of fat too? With the developed world getting fatter by the minute now god has to make hades even bigger (or charge them double like on some airlines).

He11 might smell pretty good.

<p>via GIPHY</p>

Geezer Ray · Apr 24, 2018

atlashunter said:
Just to cite one example, does the Bible not say thou shalt not suffer a witch to live?

What verse and book, please?

welderguy · Apr 24, 2018

ambush80 said:
I think that they believe something that's unreasonable. A ***** in the heart isn't reason. A personal revelation isn't reason either.

Reason

2. the power of the mind to think, understand, and form judgments by a process of logic.

Unreasonable

not guided by or based on good sense.

How can I reason with a person who says that God told them something? What if they say that God told them through His book that the Earth stopped in it's rotation and they believe it and I can't change their mind? How can I reason with them about it? Would it be fair to call them unreasonable?

I'll admit I was speaking too broadly. I recognize that people with unreasonable beliefs can be reasonable about all manner of other things.

I knew you'd see my reasoning eventually. :clap:

Geezer Ray · Apr 24, 2018

atlashunter said:
Yes it’s the same god. Actually it would be more accurate to say that their gods share common origin.

Where do you get this from?

atlashunter · Apr 24, 2018

Geezer Ray said:
What verse and book, please?

You don't know?

atlashunter · Apr 24, 2018

Geezer Ray said:
Where do you get this from?

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Allah

The name’s origin can be traced to the earliest Semitic writings in which the word for god was il or el, the latter being used in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament). AllÄ�h is the standard Arabic word for God and is used by Arabic-speaking Christians and Jews as well as by Muslims regardless of their native tongue.

Ever heard of the semitic deity referred to as El?

Geezer Ray · Apr 24, 2018

bullethead said:
Is that your opinion?
There are quite a lot of predestination christians that absolutely know their God determined some people were never going to be in Heaven no matter what.
What would you say to those Christians to show them why they are wrong?

Matthew 18:14 So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these should perish. Yes this is spoken in a parable, notice Father is capitalized indicating God, not His will.

John 6:40 For this is the will of My Father, that EVERYONE who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him upon the last day.

These are a couple of verse that say Everyone and Fathers will is none should perish.

Geezer Ray · Apr 24, 2018

atlashunter said:
You don't know?

nope

atlashunter · Apr 24, 2018

Geezer Ray said:
nope

If you don’t know what your book says, you’re in no position to say whether Christians are acting in accordance with it or not.

Geezer Ray · Apr 24, 2018

atlashunter said:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Allah

I am sorry but I do not think we are speaking of the same God. I put no faith in the Muslim bible what so ever. I know you are going to pounce on that. I am warned against false doctrine and I believe this to be false doctrine. When Ishmael and his mother were sent away God did bless Ishmael and promised a great nation which I believe became the Arabs see Genesis 16:11-12. I believe this is where the two end and the Arabs idea of God is false. I know I know but that is how I feel.

Ever heard of the semitic deity referred to as El?

Sorry no I have not, I did try to look up El in my Strong's exhaustive concordance of the Bible and found no reference to El.

Geezer Ray · Apr 24, 2018

atlashunter said:
If you don’t know what your book says, you’re in no position to say whether Christians are acting in accordance with it or not.

Ok so does that mean you can not provide the book and verse? I do not have the bible memorized I still have to look up somethings.

NE GA Pappy · Apr 24, 2018

Geezer Ray said:
What verse and book, please?

Exodus 22:18

There are several verses that deal with expunging evil from the jewish empire. Just like several on here have said we need to 'turn Iraq into a sea of glass' with nuclear weapons.

They know that the thought process and actions of a nation can't be changed, and the only way to wipe out those things is to eliminate all those people who would practice the behaviors that are to be done away.

Geezer Ray · Apr 24, 2018

NE GA Pappy said:
Exodus 22:18

There are several verses that deal with expunging evil from the jewish empire. Just like several on here have said we need to 'turn Iraq into a sea of glass' with nuclear weapons.

They know that the thought process and actions of a nation can't be changed, and the only way to wipe out those things is to eliminate all those people who would practice the behaviors that are to be done away.

This is of course when the Jewish people were living under the law. Jesus Christ gave a new covenant and we are living under grace and mercy now because it is impossible to follow all the law.

bullethead · Apr 24, 2018

Geezer Ray said:
Matthew 18:14 So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these should perish. Yes this is spoken in a parable, notice Father is capitalized indicating God, not His will.

John 6:40 For this is the will of My Father, that EVERYONE who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him upon the last day.

These are a couple of verse that say Everyone and Fathers will is none should perish.

Epesians 1:4
4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love

Romans 9:11
11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls—

Romans 9:15-21
For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Willwhat is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump done vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?

bullethead · Apr 24, 2018

http://www.christiandoctrine.com/ch...s-who-will-be-saved-qeverything-else-is-a-lie

NCHillbilly · Apr 24, 2018

Geezer Ray said:
This is of course when the Jewish people were living under the law. Jesus Christ gave a new covenant and we are living under grace and mercy now because it is impossible to follow all the law.

So, is it ok for us to make graven images and commit adultery and eat shrimp and wear clothing made of mixed fibers now?

Is my atheist dad in heaven?

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