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  #101  
Old 04-20-2017, 10:15 PM
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Ok Richie you win. Your resolve to avoid the question has wore me out.
But I'll answer your question -

No.
I will win if your house is beside mine in the Kingdom and we are fishing together. Otherwise I feel like you fell into the river and you were going over the falls. I stuck my arm out to grab you but you wouldn't grab mine and I watched you go over the falls.
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  #102  
Old 04-20-2017, 11:08 PM
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I will win if your house is beside mine in the Kingdom and we are fishing together. Otherwise I feel like you fell into the river and you were going over the falls. I stuck my arm out to grab you but you wouldn't grab mine and I watched you go over the falls.
What's the world record Heaven bass weigh?
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  #103  
Old 04-20-2017, 11:13 PM
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What's the world record Heaven bass weigh?
Not sure but I hope to find out.
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  #104  
Old 04-20-2017, 11:23 PM
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Not sure but I hope to find out.
I hope it's all you've ever dreamed about and more. I honestly do.
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  #105  
Old 04-20-2017, 11:29 PM
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I hope it's all you've ever dreamed about and more. I honestly do.
I appreciate that brother. I hope your house is next door as well. We have different views on the afterlife but I can tell you are a good man.
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  #106  
Old 04-21-2017, 02:17 AM
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I will win if your house is beside mine in the Kingdom and we are fishing together. Otherwise I feel like you fell into the river and you were going over the falls. I stuck my arm out to grab you but you wouldn't grab mine and I watched you go over the falls.
Although I appreciate you feel that way, you shouldn't.
I used to be a Christian. I'm perfectly aware of the price your god is going to make me pay if he exists.
I'm not a rapist. I'm not a thief. I'm not a murderer. I don't go to church on Sunday and then break the 10 Commandments on Monday. I don't worship any other gods. In fact, I now lead a more "Christian like" life than many Christians do. Am I perfect? No. I admit that and work on being a better person.
Next time you see God maybe you can ask him why that's not good enough. Maybe ask him why I have to worship him to be considered a "good" person in his eyes.

Heck if the rapists, murderers and thieves can fish with you in the Kingdom sure seems like there would be room in the boat for the people who weren't those things.
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  #107  
Old 04-21-2017, 06:31 AM
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Ok. I'll grant that what you explore is tangential (oh boy, is it ever) to the discussion of freewill.

I see where you might be going, only because I'm familiar with the way you develop conversation, but regular folk don't usually wander off into the thicket like that when discussing a specific topic.
OK...you say tangential, fair enough.
I'm not interested in playing gotcha (well, maybe not as much as once I was...but who knows right?...maybe more so?) but somebody posted something like "a puppet is free, but only if he loves his strings". Or something like that.

Then a man concedes "his stuff" might well be roiling up from the unobservable and (perhaps) unknowable (acknowledged as part of himself...maybe even the iceberg metaphor...a very greater part) into his consciousness. And from there, the man acts and speaks. (We haven't yet decided if this is, or must be true of all men..."but studies show").

Yeah, puppet and strings. "These are my strings" says the puppet, and how I love them so...for...they...are mine. It is of no consequence to the puppet (or so it thinks) that I do not know or see clearly the other end of their tether...for again...regardless it is all "of me". (we touched on this in the other discussion, the not knowing of stuff poured in...let alone even moment to moment the stuff that "sneaks by" even after we are made conscious to choice).

Such fools we are! Thinking we stand as guards in the conscious...this I will receive...this I will not. This I will "let" become part and parcel of me...this I will not. It's too funny for words, but I see my freedom in word may be taken as sleight. For all the while those judgements of what to be let in, what will decide what is "of me" and what is not, what is acceptable, what is only fit for rejection...are all according to the strings being already pulled, already always having their tugs and yanks inexorably at work. Laughable.
"I will be what I want"...while all the while wants are never seen, desires and fears jerking away at strings...but in the man's mind he says "Look, I am my own product!"
He even sings to himself.

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  #108  
Old 04-21-2017, 07:31 AM
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Heck if the rapists, murderers and thieves can fish with you in the Kingdom sure seems like there would be room in the boat for the people who weren't those things.
I don't won't to be in a place with rapist, murderers, and thieves. Seems to me the only difference between heaven and h3!! is the temperature.
Maybe God forgives, I don't.

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
--Emo Philips
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  #109  
Old 04-21-2017, 07:32 AM
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I will win if your house is beside mine in the Kingdom and we are fishing together. Otherwise I feel like you fell into the river and you were going over the falls. I stuck my arm out to grab you but you wouldn't grab mine and I watched you go over the falls.
My head just exploded.
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  #110  
Old 04-21-2017, 07:43 AM
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I don't won't to be in a place with rapist, murderers, and thieves. Seems to me the only difference between heaven and h3!! is the temperature.
Maybe God forgives, I don't.

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
--Emo Philips
Well to be fair to the rapists, murderers and thieves, as long as they can eek out a repentance with their dying breath, then the rapists, murders and thieves aren't rapists, murderers and thieves anymore no matter how many victims they have raped, murdered or thieved.
That should be of great comfort to their victims.
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  #111  
Old 04-21-2017, 07:47 AM
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Well to be fair to the rapists, murderers and thieves, as long as they can eek out a repentance with their dying breath, then the rapists, murders and thieves aren't rapists, murderers and thieves anymore no matter how many victims they have raped, murdered or thieved.
That should be of great comfort to their victims.
I reckon God can forgive them since he made them that way. I don't. Plus, you never know when they could relapse and ask for forgiveness...again.

God should have a, 3 strikes and you are out, rule.
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  #112  
Old 04-21-2017, 07:58 AM
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I reckon God can forgive them since he made them that way. I don't. Plus, you never know when they could relapse and ask for forgiveness...again.

God should have a, 3 strikes and you are out, rule.
Geez Griz with that attitude you better find out what tackle you'll need for fishing in the Lake of Fire
Maybe a Daredevil spoon would work.......
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  #113  
Old 04-21-2017, 08:15 AM
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Geez Griz with that attitude you better find out what tackle you'll need for fishing in the Lake of Fire
Maybe a Daredevil spoon would work.......
If there is no cold beer, what's the point?
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  #114  
Old 04-21-2017, 08:43 AM
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If there is no cold beer, what's the point?
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  #115  
Old 04-21-2017, 09:41 AM
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I appreciate that brother. I hope your house is next door as well. We have different views on the afterlife but I can tell you are a good man.
If you're right about which God is real it won't be, my wife and daughter will be with me burning in He11 for all eternity, too. But we got what we asked for. We made a choice with the best information that we had available. You can keep calling that just and loving if you want.
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  #116  
Old 04-21-2017, 11:15 AM
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If you're right about which God is real it won't be, my wife and daughter will be with me burning in He11 for all eternity, too. But we got what we asked for. We made a choice with the best information that we had available. You can keep calling that just and loving if you want.
By the way, if I told you I had cancer would you care? I bet you would. I bet you would think about me off and on during the day. Why don't you have that same reaction knowing that I'm going to He11? Is the thought of it, the reality of it too much to bear? Do you have to put it out of your mind that I will be burning in a lake of fire for all eternity with no end to my suffering? Think about the reality of that. Can you stand it?
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  #117  
Old 04-21-2017, 05:34 PM
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By the way, if I told you I had cancer would you care? I bet you would. I bet you would think about me off and on during the day. Why don't you have that same reaction knowing that I'm going to He11? Is the thought of it, the reality of it too much to bear? Do you have to put it out of your mind that I will be burning in a lake of fire for all eternity with no end to my suffering? Think about the reality of that. Can you stand it?
I do have the same reaction. I pray for you all the time. That God would give you what you need for your proof.
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  #118  
Old 04-21-2017, 05:41 PM
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I do have the same reaction. I pray for you all the time. That God would give you what you need for your proof.
Will you feel sorry for me, suffering forever? How long did Jesus spend in He11?
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  #119  
Old 04-21-2017, 07:36 PM
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Geez Griz with that attitude you better find out what tackle you'll need for fishing in the Lake of Fire
Maybe a Daredevil spoon would work.......
Hey, what's biting today?

"Blackened Redfish!"
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  #120  
Old 04-21-2017, 10:35 PM
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Dripping rock what is the meaning of your avatar? I must admit I find it a little odd and didn't care for the song I heard when I researched it online.
That's Bubbles from the Netficks series "Trailer Park Boys".

Bubbles lives in a shed with his cats. He gets scared easy. Samsquanch is his way of saying Sasquatch.
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  #121  
Old 04-21-2017, 11:29 PM
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That's Bubbles from the Netficks series "Trailer Park Boys".

Bubbles lives in a shed with his cats. He gets scared easy. Samsquanch is his way of saying Sasquatch.
Rickyism;
"Get two birds stoned at once!"
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  #122  
Old 04-22-2017, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by WaltL1 View Post
Although I appreciate you feel that way, you shouldn't.
I used to be a Christian. I'm perfectly aware of the price your god is going to make me pay if he exists.
I'm not a rapist. I'm not a thief. I'm not a murderer. I don't go to church on Sunday and then break the 10 Commandments on Monday. I don't worship any other gods. In fact, I now lead a more "Christian like" life than many Christians do. Am I perfect? No. I admit that and work on being a better person.
Next time you see God maybe you can ask him why that's not good enough. Maybe ask him why I have to worship him to be considered a "good" person in his eyes.

Heck if the rapists, murderers and thieves can fish with you in the Kingdom sure seems like there would be room in the boat for the people who weren't those things.
Since I am just beginning to learn the "no restriction" policy myself, it would be foolish to try and introduce it through any qualification, myself. But, you say, "I was once a Christian". So, forget about what you may (or even I may consider my stance!) regarding "being a christian" and what we may infer or imply of it in any application.

But...I find most "christian" people (presently self identifying...or presently past identifying) have some sort of familiarity with the Bible. Usually (and often especially) with the part called the new testament.

So here's the question, did you ever read the part where Jesus says "You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.


Talk about "being in the same boat!" How could I deny you without being made a manifest fool, myself? The question for me isn't whether "someday I hope Walt and I can fish together, that somehow Walt will be made as "good" as me" (do you hear laughter? I do!) But that how could any man, anywhere, at any time (I know some find my tendency to paint with a broad brush, sloppy, to say the least)...get outta "that boat"?

You could ask..."so what about it then?" Why the Jesus hubbub (this Israel guy amongst others) always seems to be making? I can't speak for others in this matter of the "why" in particular...(each man is given to declare his own relationship to anyone...surely including this Jesus)...but I am "allowed" to speak of what I believe I know.

So here's a thing I (presently) can't deny. (And I admit freely it is a simple cornerstone of my present thinking) Jesus is always telling me everything that is utterly impossible..."stuff". (or if you prefer...I am inferring, I gotta allow for that)
He never tells me "you got it now! You figured it out!" and this is really odd...because at times...I think I really do. But then...another impossible thing comes into view.
Impossible! Impossible! I mean...this Jesus is relentless in it.
I think I understand what the cross means, and I may even think I got some grip of it. And, quite metaphorically speaking...there I am...suffering nobly, sweating profusely, giving my most pious impression of ascending that hill with Him (yeah, I'm right here with you Jesus! How you doing friend? I know you wanted company...just some companionship...I'm here for you Bud!)...and boom...that girl's face in the crowd! Man, is she pretty! Makes me wanna straighten up a bit, suck in my gut a little, maybe even wince...but just the tiniest bit, y'know, show I'm bearing it (while also trying to show how very very tough this is!). Do you hear laughter yet? I do!
Who am I kidding?

Now, admittedly, it's times like these I think of all the times and times again I have either repeated or reminded myself (or been reminded) "If any man come to me and take not up his cross, he cannot be my disciple" I mean..."one" doesn't even get to "start" to hear from Him...apart from this! Huh? Impossible! Impossible!
And I so often think myself "a disciple"!
There's only one thing I am expert at, to deny it now would bring a laughter I don't think I can bear to hear...for I don't perceive it would be "laughing with me".

I am an expert fraud.

Pick me apart to the deepest particle I have yet seen of myself (but indeed, I also admit..."that" picking has a very salubrious effect...which I cannot explain) and I trust every particle will be stamped and say "done for an audience". For wife...one demeanor and face. Co-workers get another, children, another, friends..."enemies"...I got a trunk full of faces. And each is always being cosmetically modified per reaction.

OOOps! Shouldn't have put on that scorn face to such a degree toward that guy in the bar whose arms were 5 inches larger than mine! Noted!
Shouldn't have put on that "smart face" among these atheists (they're already pretty expert at looking past my "pious" face "I'm only here to help you poor poor shlubs")...cause some obviously do quadratics in their sleep! Noted!

But this fellow Jesus keeps ripping off masks! Doesn't He ever get tired? Impossible! He even gets past the one I don't think I have ever allowed anyone else (or should I say...been so provoked as to show anyone else?) "Why the he** are you treating me this way?"

'Yeah...one time I got so deep in the doo doo (to me) this thought came "Are you just trying to take advantage of my good nature?" (I hope you someday hear that laughter!...like maybe even now) Yeah, that remains an all time belly buster!

So yeah, I kinda love Him. He's impossible to be with...pretty much...like me.

If we wanna stick with the boating analogy, I'd have to say...He knows me stem to stern. I don't.
But, He's the one who never jumped ship, and yet also won't fall for my masks. It's really quite impossible to understand well enough to explain. It's just who He is.

It's odd (and yes, I know I say that a lot) how it seems to be working. If I allow Him the what..."dignity"??? respect? "allowance"? of Him to be who he says He is...I hear this..."yeah, it's fine for you to be who you are, too...at least with me"

No one else I know (wife, children, parents, friends...enemies) has ever told me so as convincingly. Nor unremittingly in practice.
Yeah...for now...at least...that's what "my" hubbub is about.
An impossible fellow finding another impossible fellow. And calling him...friend. Yeah...it's impossible.
Just look around the boat.
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Last edited by Israel; 04-22-2017 at 06:10 AM.
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  #123  
Old 04-22-2017, 07:14 AM
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□ Morning question and answer period with Israel to Israel.
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  #124  
Old 04-22-2017, 07:51 AM
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□ Morning question and answer period with Israel to Israel.
✔ check
I rather enjoyed it. It struck a chord in my heart.
Made me think of what Jesus said: "With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

Thanks Israel.
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  #125  
Old 04-22-2017, 08:32 AM
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I rather enjoyed it. It struck a chord in my heart.
Made me think of what Jesus said: "With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

Thanks Israel.
Yeah, it's nice to be able to have a place where a potential audience is already there instead of relying on the works to have them come.
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