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  #26  
Old 08-17-2017, 10:25 PM
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What you advise is only going to terrify an already gun shy dog. It's akin to putting a man who already has shell shock in an environment that triggers his fear to the max as if that will cure him.
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Old 08-18-2017, 01:47 PM
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What you advise is only going to terrify an already gun shy dog. It's akin to putting a man who already has shell shock in an environment that triggers his fear to the max as if that will cure him.
Agree 100% atlashunter. Cruel and unusual to say the least. There are much better ways to go about.
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  #28  
Old 09-08-2017, 12:34 AM
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I'm always afraid of my dogs going deaf because they all run TOWARD the gun fire and look for what ever you are shooting at.

I have to put them in a pen if I shoot much on the range of have company to shoot with.
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  #29  
Old 09-12-2017, 05:32 PM
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What you advise is only going to terrify an already gun shy dog. It's akin to putting a man who already has shell shock in an environment that triggers his fear to the max as if that will cure him.
No I am not. This situation was created. I have trained many more gun dogs than most. Delmar Smith used this method to fix gun shy dogs. If the dog was exposed to gunfire continually it might fix the problem. Like I said might. The best way to prevent a gun shy dog is by proper conditioning. Its just like you create a Lab that does not want to go in the water . Take a puppy to a pond on a cold day and then when he does not want to go in the water because it is freezing and you make him go . Guess what you just created a problem.
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:36 PM
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I'm always afraid of my dogs going deaf because they all run TOWARD the gun fire and look for what ever you are shooting at.

I have to put them in a pen if I shoot much on the range of have company to shoot with.
That is because your dog or dogs associate gun fire with something good. Proper conditioning. It tells you how to do this in about every gun dog training video or book out there.
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:38 PM
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Agree 100% atlashunter. Cruel and unusual to say the least. There are much better ways to go about.
Yea by avoiding the problem to start with. Just like an e collar in the hands of some one who just bought it and has no idea how to use it. That happens every day.
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  #32  
Old 09-12-2017, 05:46 PM
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take her to the firing range in a dog box and put him as close a s you can to the firing line as yo can get.

That would make it worse.


If it won't hunt, it just won't.

They make good pets and stick chaser's though.
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  #33  
Old 09-12-2017, 06:16 PM
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That would make it worse.


If it won't hunt, it just won't.

They make good pets and stick chaser's though.
What is your fix? For the problem . The man wants to try to fix his dog.
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  #34  
Old 09-12-2017, 06:20 PM
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That's interesting because Bill Tarrant wrote the book on the Delmar Smith method as well as many other books on retriever training. In those books he chided those who recommend putting a dog on a firing line and instead recommends the method of gradual introduction others here have described. Maybe from the dogs perspective that pop on an oil well is far less traumatic than a firing range.
What would you do? To help this man? Tarrant is a writer. Never saw him at hunt test or a field trial. His methodology is very dated just like Richard Wolters and Richard and I were friends.
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  #35  
Old 09-12-2017, 06:21 PM
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That would make it worse.


If it won't hunt, it just won't.

They make good pets and stick chaser's though.
This is the conclusion I have come to. She loves the water and will retrieve with the best of them but as soon as she hears a bang shes gone. Do you think if I get another dog her behavior around gun fire, thunder and fireworks will affect the new dogs behavior?
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  #36  
Old 09-12-2017, 11:22 PM
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What is your fix? For the problem . The man wants to try to fix his dog.
I have posted my "fix".

How many have YOU fixed? Ok, NONE. lets just stick with that.

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Originally Posted by red neck richie View Post
This is the conclusion I have come to. She loves the water and will retrieve with the best of them but as soon as she hears a bang shes gone. Do you think if I get another dog her behavior around gun fire, thunder and fireworks will affect the new dogs behavior?


Probably will. Not really worth the risk. IMO.

king killer didn't get the memo.

Sorry about the dog. If you are that into it, get
another one that is gun broke from a registered breeder.
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  #37  
Old 09-13-2017, 11:35 AM
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This is the conclusion I have come to. She loves the water and will retrieve with the best of them but as soon as she hears a bang shes gone. Do you think if I get another dog her behavior around gun fire, thunder and fireworks will affect the new dogs behavior?
Birds might help with your old dog. I would try to get her interested in birds . dont fire a gun . just try some ducks and pigeons. Get her going on birds.
Then see if you can introduce her at distance with a cap gun. Blow a duck call and use a bird boy to get the loud noise away from her. Do give up. The other thought is make her a blood trail dog for downed and lost deer. just dont give up.
Make sure you have her on a check cord.
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  #38  
Old 09-13-2017, 11:39 AM
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I have posted my "fix".

How many have YOU fixed? Ok, NONE. lets just stick with that.

[/color]
[/color]
Probably will. Not really worth the risk. IMO.

king killer didn't get the memo.

Sorry about the dog. If you are that into it, get
another one that is gun broke from a registered breeder.
No fix here just a wash out . Never heard of a registered breeder. If you get a puppy get a pup out of gun dog stock and go find a pro to help you with your puppy. When did you become expert on Gun shy dogs? A Gun broke puppy. Give me a brake. They got to be trained.
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  #39  
Old 09-13-2017, 01:13 PM
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No fix here just a wash out . Never heard of a registered breeder. If you get a puppy get a pup out of gun dog stock and go find a pro to help you with your puppy. When did you become expert on Gun shy dogs? A Gun broke puppy. Give me a brake. They got to be trained.
Prolly a BUNCH of stuff you never heard of.

Try This:
http://www.bing.com/search?q=gun+bro...06832C640DEB0D

Then try here: No shortage of breeder's and dogs.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=hunting...FORM=QBRE&sp=1

And to answer your other question:
About 40 years ago.

To the OP. #3 is local if you want to check them out.
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  #40  
Old 09-13-2017, 05:12 PM
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I think you are talking bird dog and I am talking retreiver. The dog pictured is a yellow lab not a bird dog. I am looking at it through a retreiver trainers eyes. Your talking apples and I am talking oranges. Training method and concepts are totally different.
A Arthur is good
http://www.findretrievers.com/search...hp?PeopleID=19
This is local to and I know Al and Hugh. They are straight shooters.
Water Swat is on here and he is good to on Boykins.
http://forum.gon.com/member.php?u=113576
Here is some one that give you some good info on good blood lines in the retreiver world.
RUTTNBUCK
http://forum.gon.com/member.php?u=1365
Joe Overby
http://forum.gon.com/member.php?u=91188

Someday I will show my National Retreiver club pin. 1985 National Retreiver championship pin.
40 years for you means that I was already grown . Killed my first duck when I was ten in 61 and had been in the Army ten years when your 40 years started. LOL I will be 66 in November. I started in Retreiver Field trials in the mid seventys long before hunt test.
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Last edited by king killer delete; 09-13-2017 at 05:39 PM.
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  #41  
Old 09-13-2017, 07:15 PM
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So, you are only twelve years older than me and got a late start.

And your point is?

Mine is there is no way to "break a gun shy" dog of
any breed, no matter the quarry.

Some will hunt, some won't.

Thank you for your service.
My late Father went in at 17 and retired with 42+ years.
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  #42  
Old 09-13-2017, 09:10 PM
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Birds might help with your old dog. I would try to get her interested in birds . dont fire a gun . just try some ducks and pigeons. Get her going on birds. <
Then see if you can introduce her at distance with a cap gun. Blow a duck call and use a bird boy to get the loud noise away from her. Do give up. The other thought is make her a blood trail dog for downed and lost deer. just dont give up.
Make sure you have her on a check cord.
Hmmm... seems like I said that in post 2
And to the OP. You asked about influence from another dog. The competition factor may help but it'll be by distraction and that's what the birds are doing. Distraction is the prey drive. And stay away from the fireworks.
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  #43  
Old 09-13-2017, 09:45 PM
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So, you are only twelve years older than me and got a late start.

And your point is?

Mine is there is no way to "break a gun shy" dog of
any breed, no matter the quarry.

Some will hunt, some won't.

Thank you for your service.
My late Father went in at 17 and retired with 42+ years.
Yea I was in in 69 and retired in 90. I don't disagree. When I trained gun dogs it was hard to explain to owners that some would and some won't. In the Retreiver breeds gun shyness is created most times. I have seen skidish dogs brought round. My recommendations as far as the prey drive worked for me on several dogs.But I would say that this condition is created by folks not knowing how to introduce a puppy to gunfire. Now I am not saying this happened in this case. As far as going to the firing range at this point what have you got to loose? I don't think it would make the dog worse. Leave the dog in a dog box . Maybe just maybe you could recondition the dog not to care. The OP has not much to loose at this point. I have dogs that refused to train but when you got them in a stick pond with feathers and birds falling it was a different story.
Not every dog is the same and not every program will work on every dog. Some are soft, some are tuff , some are just plain stupid and some seem to know what to do before you do.
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  #44  
Old 10-10-2017, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by king killer delete View Post
I think you are talking bird dog and I am talking retreiver. The dog pictured is a yellow lab not a bird dog. I am looking at it through a retreiver trainers eyes. Your talking apples and I am talking oranges. Training method and concepts are totally different.
A Arthur is good
http://www.findretrievers.com/search...hp?PeopleID=19
This is local to and I know Al and Hugh. They are straight shooters.
Water Swat is on here and he is good to on Boykins.
http://forum.gon.com/member.php?u=113576
Here is some one that give you some good info on good blood lines in the retreiver world.
RUTTNBUCK
http://forum.gon.com/member.php?u=1365
Joe Overby
http://forum.gon.com/member.php?u=91188

Someday I will show my National Retreiver club pin. 1985 National Retreiver championship pin.
40 years for you means that I was already grown . Killed my first duck when I was ten in 61 and had been in the Army ten years when your 40 years started. LOL I will be 66 in November. I started in Retreiver Field trials in the mid seventys long before hunt test.
If bird dogs and retrievers are apples and oranges then why were you citing a method by Delmar Smith who was a bird dog trainer not a retriever trainer?
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  #45  
Old 10-11-2017, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Big7 View Post
I have posted my "fix".

How many have YOU fixed? Ok, NONE. lets just stick with that.

[/color]
[/color]
Probably will. Not really worth the risk. IMO.

king killer didn't get the memo.

Sorry about the dog. If you are that into it, get
another one that is gun broke from a registered breeder.
Same here. I gave my fix. I agree with the others it may just be better to get another dog but I'll say this much. If that dog can't adjust to a moderate noise at a distance and gradually work up from there you sure as heck aren't going to get the dog over it by taking it to a firing range and exposing it to a barrage of gunfire. A lot of dogs have been made gunshy by ignorant owners doing that.
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  #46  
Old 10-11-2017, 07:02 AM
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Here you go Richie.

http://www.huntsmith.com/article.php?id=9

This is from Rick Smith, the son of Delmar Smith who as KKD noted is a renowned (now retired) trainer. Echoes a lot of the advice you've received here. Keep the dog away from the gun range and try the method in this article if you are really dedicated to making this one a gun dog. Good luck.
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  #47  
Old 10-12-2017, 06:37 PM
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Here you go Richie.

http://www.huntsmith.com/article.php?id=9

This is from Rick Smith, the son of Delmar Smith who as KKD noted is a renowned (now retired) trainer. Echoes a lot of the advice you've received here. Keep the dog away from the gun range and try the method in this article if you are really dedicated to making this one a gun dog. Good luck.
Good article thanks for sharing.
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