Started dogs??

Questions for guys that have bought or sold started dogs. Tuck is 10 now and his hips are giving him more and more trouble as time goes on so I'm looking for another dog to pair up with Tober. I really don't want to go through the puppy stage again this year and was looking for a dog between 6 months and 1 1/2 year old. The price on them (been looking at setters, red setters and pointers) varies greatly from $750 up to $2550 for dogs that have had little to no wild bird contact and just starting to retrieve, handle, the bare basics. And I'm OK with that and don't expect much from a 6 month old but my pups by a year old can hunt wild birds with more success than failure , handle, back, more than just the basics. I'm just not seeing many year old started dogs with much training. I wonder why and wonder if these as cast offs breeders are not putting much time into because they don't measure up?

I'm not looking at backyard breeds and the dogs are pedigreed. I'm not worried about price and pedigreed.....I'm not going to breed him so.

So guys who sell started dogs: Why are you selling a started dog in the first place? Are they in demand? What are you saying your started dogs are able to do as a year old for sale?

Guys who have bought a started dog: Why did you get a started dog? Did you get what you expected to get? Would you do it again?

First, If I buy a started dog, I will buy from a seller that I know or have references on.

I have only purchased two started dogs. Both of the dogs were from people that did not want them. I think in both cases I got honest answers from the sellers.

$750 is an eight week old pup from a well bred litter.

I ain't no bird man but dogs I know and if you wanna sell him I probably don't want em Just sayin

Look for field trial washouts, likely have a lot of good training but don't have enough run for the horseback world.

downhiller2010 said:

Look for field trial washouts, likely have a lot of good training but don't have enough run for the horseback world.

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This..............

Sometimes pups aren't bought out of larger litters for no reason other than earlier pups were taken and the supply overwhelmed demand. Breeder/trainers will tune up the leftover pups for their own use or sale as started dogs. This has nothing to do with the dog's quality or hunting instincts.

Thanks Coach. I'm 80% sure I'll get one from the Berg Bros in Minnesota. They sound like they really look over and work out there prospects before deciding on who stays on to improve their line and who moves on. I have to be in MN in 2 weeks anyway and I'm going to see a pair run.

One think I have learned about searching the internet for dogs.......It's about pointless. Few guys keep their web sites up to date with litters born and fewer yet return emails or calls. Even the big name guys that write and do seminars....they must not worry to much about their web sites.

I've always brought up my dogs from pups. I have never needed to purchase a started dog, yet. However, if I did need to, I would never purchase a started dog unless I have seen it hunt, handle wild birds (or at the very least pigeons), and have shot over it.

That way you have a good idea what you're getting.
The investment is too great that to do otherwise would be a
akin to buying a car without test driving it.

I'm not a fan of the "started" dogs in general. Different trainers have different viewpoints on started. Then they ask an absurb price for dogs that were originally a $500 that now knows basic obedience with no field work.

One good thing that can be said about buying a started dog is at least you get to see what the dogs abilities are at that stage in its life. There are not many guarantees that come with a puppy about performance. Yes most have health guarantees but raising a puppy takes a lot of time if it is done right. It can be a crap shoot.Really a bummer when it does not work out. All that time and effort wasted. It's amazing how many plantations no longer raise their own dogs but opt to buy fully broke dogs instead. Much cheaper that way. Good finished dogs are bringing 3500.00 in my area. Most buy from the same trainers about every time.
A person that truly wants to improve his kennel would never sell 8 week old pups. Instead they will hold back all the dogs then keep back the best and sell the others. Thus selling started dogs. Not that there are anything wrong with them.All littermates are created equal but one always stands out from the rest for some reason. That is the dog I want. You can't find that dog if you sold it at 8 weeks. Last time I visited Robert Wehle years ago he had at least 10 litters on the ground in Midway. That's how he got such great dogs from selecting only the best of the best for many many years and selling the rest. Nothing at all wrong with buying a started dog.

Yeah Covey that's what the Berg Brothers are doing. They don't sell many pups and give their youngsters a chance to show off before they decide who stay's and who can be sold. Again I'm not looking for a a trained dog. I do pretty good job of that myself. I just wanted to bypass the puppy part or at least the first 6 months.

One thing on your comment about the plantations, are they dumping the dogs after the season? I came across one place in Tx on the web that had 90 dogs that were for sale. Pointers, Setters and GSP's, like a used car lot. My guess was he supplied dogs to quail leases but maybe he just bought up end of the year cast offs and resold them. Beats me

I'm guessing Cline Strickland?

Yes sir

Sounds like the dog auction guy. Is that the Cline Line? Most of the plantations keep all their good dogs till they are 6 years old then sell them to people at shooting preserves or places that only foot hunt and can use an older dog. They still get in the 2000-2500 range for the dogs at the age of 6. By then they have thousands of contacts and are really nice dogs but can't run at horseback speed.

Yes Cline Strickland is the Cline Line owner but not sure he builds boxes anymore. But he does buy a lot of dogs for resale. I know folks that bought dogs from him and were more than satisfied but I know some who weren't. Always need to see a dog work before you spend good money on one.

We had 6 or 7 down years and a bunch of fellows sold their dog and quit hunting, with the remarkable resurgence we've had there was a real market for started and broke quail dogs so Cline had a bunch for sale this past season.

Killinstuff said:

Thanks Coach. I'm 80% sure I'll get one from the Berg Bros in Minnesota. They sound like they really look over and work out there prospects before deciding on who stays on to improve their line and who moves on. I have to be in MN in 2 weeks anyway and I'm going to see a pair run.

One think I have learned about searching the internet for dogs.......It's about pointless. Few guys keep their web sites up to date with litters born and fewer yet return emails or calls. Even the big name guys that write and do seminars....they must not worry to much about their web sites.

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What ended up happening?

I haven't gotten there yet. The work I had lined in southern MN was put on hold because the frost laws went into effect about the time we scheduled the work and they couldn't roll the crane to my tower. But I'll be in Shawano WI next week which is 3 or 4 hours from the kennel in MN so if I'm ahead of schedule I'll make the drive.

As a side note I was in the Rhinelander area for 5 days the first week in April. For the guys planning on heading to WI for grouse and woodcock this fall that area should be great. 1000's and 1000's of acres of clearcuts are coming into their prime within a 75 mile radius of Rhinelander. It snowed 8" of wet heavy snow that lasted 2 days so any nesting woodcock took a beating but the snow was pretty much just where I was.

Killinstuff said:

I haven't gotten there yet. The work I had lined in southern MN was put on hold because the frost laws went into effect about the time we scheduled the work and they couldn't roll the crane to my tower. But I'll be in Shawano WI next week which is 3 or 4 hours from the kennel in MN so if I'm ahead of schedule I'll make the drive.

As a side note I was in the Rhinelander area for 5 days the first week in April. For the guys planning on heading to WI for grouse and woodcock this fall that area should be great. 1000's and 1000's of acres of clearcuts are coming into their prime within a 75 mile radius of Rhinelander. It snowed 8" of wet heavy snow that lasted 2 days so any nesting woodcock took a beating but the snow was pretty much just where I was.

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Wisconsin is very nice grouse country. You can equal it but not beat it. Been through Rhinelander myself on my way to my camp.

Here's a link to the video section of my hunting/training page. If you look at the videos Sept - Nov of last year we hunted 2 mths straight. I was sure ready for some steak when I got back to GA!

https://www.facebook.com/pg/xerxes.llewellins/videos/?ref=page_internal