I couldn't help it

WaltL1 · Jun 25, 2017

welderguy said:
So you're telling me that God loves every person up until the point that they reject Him? At this point, He suddenly stops loving them and condemns them to be separated from Him?

That is not an everlasting love (Jer31:3),and it still contradicts Rom.8:35-39.
Am I missing something?

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense does it?
The kicker is he actually never stops loving them. He's sad he has to separate you. He's sad he's going to send you to a torturous forever. He's sad you just wouldn't worship him.
But you know, what choice does he have?

bullethead · Jun 25, 2017

SemperFiDawg said:
The only god delusion that is self-made is you.

I'll start to think of you as credible the second you can back up anything that you constantly claim.

Anyone can say anything that they want to, in fact you might be the best. But only the credible people can back it up. And that is where you fail in every post.

SemperFiDawg · Jun 25, 2017

welderguy said:
Am I missing something?

Are these ambiguous concerning who God wishes to save?

1 Tim 2

First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, 2 for kings and all who are in [a]authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. 3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the [c]knowledge of the truth.

John 3:16New American Standard Bible (NASB)

16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His [a]only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

2 Peter 3:9New International Version (NIV)

9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

SemperFiDawg · Jun 25, 2017

WaltL1 said:
Doesn't make a whole lot of sense does it?
The kicker is he actually never stops loving them. He's sad he has to separate you. He's sad he's going to send you to a torturous forever. He's sad you just wouldn't worship him.
But you know, what choice does he have?

Welder do you now see why strict predeterminism is problematic. If it's true then what Walt said is a logical conclusion to reach.

bullethead · Jun 25, 2017

A god who comes to the only solution to save humans is to send himself to be sacrificed who isn't going to spend eternity in h3ll but will go to heaven instead is problematic.
What hardship.
What a sacrifice.
What a 2000 year old best attempt.

ambush80 · Jun 25, 2017

SemperFiDawg said:
Welder do you now see why strict predeterminism is problematic. If it's true then what Walt said is a logical conclusion to reach.

The problem isn't Welder's or Gemcgrew's or the recently Artfuldodger's ability to reason logically. They have come to the proper conclusion given the terribly written, self contradicting Bible that they have to go by.

Predestination is the ONLY logical conclusion to come to given Omniscience and Omnipotence. Anyone who doesn't come that conclusion isn't being logical. Whatever God does is 'good' and 'righteous', even if it means that he created Vessels of Wrath. You best figure out a way to come to grips with that like they did.

No. It's not fair by our standards but that's the God you chose (or were molded by The Potter) to believe in.

ambush80 · Jun 25, 2017

bullethead said:
A god who comes to the only solution to save humans is to send himself to be sacrificed who isn't going to spend eternity in h3ll but will go to heaven instead is problematic.
What hardship.
What a sacrifice.
What a 2000 year old best attempt.

It's a terrible attempt. We could improve upon it in five minutes in such a way that it would immediately begin to improve lives.

bullethead · Jun 25, 2017

ambush80 said:
It's a terrible attempt. We could improve upon it in five minutes in such a way that it would immediately begin to improve lives.

1900 and some odd years ago that was a romantic way to catch potential followers out of fear and need who didnt have the education to read it or the resources to check it.
1900+years later fear and need is still the driving source so much so that the available resources go unused and ignored.

It is a shame that people worship something that was limited to the powers of men.

ambush80 · Jun 25, 2017

bullethead said:
1900 and some odd years ago that was a romantic way to catch potential followers out of fear and need who didnt have the education to read it or the resources to check it.
1900+years later fear and need is still the driving source so much so that the available resources go unused and ignored.

It's been tempered by secularism (thank God) and continues to be. Although we all hate to see them cherry pick from the Bible, do we REALLY want them to follow it to the letter? I certainly don't. I think what we would really like to see them do is cherry pick it until it looks like Jefferson's Bible.

bullethead · Jun 25, 2017

ambush80 said:
It's been tempered by secularism (thank God) and continues to be. Although we all hate to see them cherry pick from the Bible, do we REALLY want them to follow it to the letter? I certainly don't. I think what we would really like to see them do is cherry pick it until it looks like Jefferson's Bible.

The fact that nobody follows it to the letter and why is telling.
The word god when needed. Outdated text and ancient ways when convenient.

Id respect them more if some in here followed it to the letter. Well, I'd at least send them phone cards while they were in prison...

ky55 · Jun 25, 2017

ambush80 said:
I think what we would really like to see them do is cherry pick it until it looks like Jefferson's Bible.

Yep, and the new-age charismatic prosperity "pastors" like Joel Osteen and Paula White have their flocks heading down that road at breakneck speed.

ambush80 · Jun 25, 2017

bullethead said:
The fact that nobody follows it to the letter and why is telling.
The word god when needed. Outdated text and ancient ways when convenient.

Id respect them more if some in here followed it to the letter. Well, I'd at least send them phone cards while they were in prison...

I wouldn't mind if they followed MOST of it to the letter. Turning all the Baptists into Amish would be nice. It sure would reduce some of the bassboat traffic and competition in the deerwoods.

welderguy · Jun 25, 2017

SemperFiDawg said:
Are these ambiguous concerning who God wishes to save?

1 Tim 2

First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, 2 for kings and all who are in [a]authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. 3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the [c]knowledge of the truth.

John 3:16New American Standard Bible (NASB)

16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His [a]only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

2 Peter 3:9New International Version (NIV)

9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Your 1 Tim.2 reference:
"All", meaning, all manner of men "OUT OF every kindred and tongue and people and nation"
That's who Timothy was being charged to go preach to.

Your John 3:16 reference:
This verse is not an invitation, contrary to alot of opinions, it is a declaration. It is saying that those that will not perish are those that will believe.(they are predestined to do both)

Your 2 Pet.3:9 reference:
This one cannot mean "all/every" human being either, because verse 7 says some are reserved for perdition and fire. This promise Peter spoke of was not for them.

bullethead · Jun 25, 2017

The work of a god cannot even get two grown men to agree on what is meant by the work.
Very, un-godlike...

welderguy · Jun 25, 2017

bullethead said:
The work of a god cannot even get two grown men to agree on what is meant by the work.
Very, un-godlike...

We both agree that Jesus is the Son of God. And because of that, he is my brother.
Did you not ever have a harmless disagreement with your natural brother?(if you had one)
Did it make you no longer brothers,or more importantly, did it make you no longer sons?

bullethead · Jun 25, 2017

welderguy said:
We both agree that Jesus is the Son of God. And because of that, he is my brother.
Did you not ever have a harmless disagreement with your natural brother?(if you had one)
Did it make you no longer brothers,or more importantly, did it make you no longer sons?

Bud, if you equate me disagreeing with someone else about which route to take, politics or favorite sports teams with two people and/or millions of people being unable to equally understand the work of god then I totally see how unimportant and unimpressive the works of your god really is.

I mean can we all agree that the Braves are a major league baseball team but we differ on which team is the best which is CLEARLY the same as agreeing that Jesus is the son of God but the word of god in his handbook is non universal in understanding.

For the zillionth time, shouldn't the work of anything even remotely being called a god be unquestionable and universal in understaning by everyone including the hardest critics? Absolute truth is undeniable.
Or
Is it realistic to overlook the inconsistency, multiple interpretations, and contradictions of what you say is literally THE word of god because, well, we all believe who his son is?

C'mon man

welderguy · Jun 25, 2017

bullethead said:
Bud, if you equate me disagreeing with someone else about which route to take, politics or favorite sports teams with two people and/or millions of people being unable to equally understand the work of god then I totally see how unimportant and unimpressive the works of your god really is.

I mean can we all agree that the Braves are a major league baseball team but we differ on which team is the best which is CLEARLY the same as agreeing that Jesus is the son of God but the word of god in his handbook is non universal in understanding.

For the zillionth time, shouldn't the work of anything even remotely being called a god be unquestionable and universal in understaning by everyone including the hardest critics? Absolute truth is undeniable.
Or
Is it realistic to overlook the inconsistency, multiple interpretations, and contradictions of what you say is literally THE word of god because, well, we all believe who his son is?

C'mon man

You want to know what I really think? I think there are so many layers to the Word of God(scriptures),kinda like peeling back an onion, that it can be simple at certain layers(even a child can understand),but the further you dig into it, the deeper and complex it gets. It's infinitely genius the way it is written in an interwoven complexity. It requires the Holy Spirit to understand the truth of it, on every level, even the simple layers. It has the ability(obviously) to confound even the wisest of men, and to make wise even the basest of men. Sure, men constantly debate the details of it, but that's because we are Jesus' disciples; we are learning and re-learning. We need each other to constantly sharpen one another's iron, so to speak. One may have insight on part of it that another doesn't, but we must check up on one another to see if there are no contradictions to the rest of scripture. If there is, it's false insight.
I'm addicted to it. Sometimes it consumes me. I need more and more. I'm like a heroine-addict sometimes.

Israel · Jun 26, 2017

What instruction of Jesus Christ or exhortation to obedience to Him by the writers of the New Testament do any find jail-worthy?

Or so "off the wall" as need, in their opinion...tempering?
What do you see, if in your knowing, it has been made known to you...Jesus Christ is indeed a dangerous man. To what, to whom?

bullethead · Jun 26, 2017

Israel said:
What instruction of Jesus Christ or exhortation to obedience to Him by the writers of the New Testament do any find jail-worthy?

Or so "off the wall" as need, in their opinion...tempering?
What do you see, if in your knowing, it has been made known to you...Jesus Christ is indeed a dangerous man. To what, to whom?

Are you just a New Testament follower?
Remind me, is Jesus and god the same, different, kind of the same, the same when needed, different when needed?

Is the entire bible the word of god ir just the New Testament?

Clear that up for me and then we can go into jailable specifics.

bullethead · Jun 26, 2017

welderguy said:
You want to know what I really think? I think there are so many layers to the Word of God(scriptures),kinda like peeling back an onion, that it can be simple at certain layers(even a child can understand),but the further you dig into it, the deeper and complex it gets. It's infinitely genius the way it is written in an interwoven complexity. It requires the Holy Spirit to understand the truth of it, on every level, even the simple layers. It has the ability(obviously) to confound even the wisest of men, and to make wise even the basest of men. Sure, men constantly debate the details of it, but that's because we are Jesus' disciples; we are learning and re-learning. We need each other to constantly sharpen one another's iron, so to speak. One may have insight on part of it that another doesn't, but we must check up on one another to see if there are no contradictions to the rest of scripture. If there is, it's false insight.
I'm addicted to it. Sometimes it consumes me. I need more and more. I'm like a heroine-addict sometimes.

Welder, whatever you have to say, however you need to sugar coat it in order to justify the ungodliness that makes up your bible.

I couldn't help it

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