Who was Cain afraid of?

hobbs27 · Jan 26, 2018

A question for Young-Earth Creationists. By JL Vaughn.

Who was Cain afraid of?

13 And Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is greater than I can bear! 14 Surely You have driven me out this day from the face of the ground; I shall be hidden from Your face; I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond on the earth, and it will happen that anyone who finds me will kill me.”

15 And the Lord said to him, “Therefore, whoever kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.” And the Lord set a mark on Cain, lest anyone finding him should kill him.

Notice, Cain was being driven from "the face of the earth/ground." vs 14

While somewhere else, people would find him and kill him. vs. 15

The standard answer is, "His brothers."

But I don't believe this answer works.

1. God, not Cain's brothers drove him out.

2. If Cain's brothers lived nearby,
A. What mark would satiate them?
B. No mark would be needed to let them know Cain was protected.

3. If Cain's brothers had already left town,
A. Why had they been driven out? Who did they kill?
B. How would they know Cain killed Abel?
C. Why did they let Cain subjugate them?

Artfuldodger · Jan 26, 2018

I don't believe it was his own family members that were living very far from the land of Eden. I don't think he had many family members when he was kicked out of Eden.
Cain's mom said "God has granted me another child in place of Abel, since Cain killed him" when Seth was born.

So why would all of these stranger want to kill Cain? Would it be that he looked different than they did? Did he look guilty of murder? Was it a much more barbaric world he was about to enter? Maybe he looked European and they looked Mongol.
If God suddenly put me in a barbaric time period and place, I would hope he marked me. I wonder how they knew God's mark if they didn't know God.

gordon 2 · Jan 26, 2018

How about if Cain was a people not only a single individual. And, that the people was going to destroy itself, because what was obviously causing fear was, "I shall be hidden from your face." " I shall be a fugitive..." and left alone to its own wits it risked peril--which the people know is not really a way to be.

Artfuldodger · Jan 26, 2018

If Cain had God's protection from murder in Eden, why didn't Abel? It was Cain's "being without God" that caused his fear. Yet God still stood by him by giving him his mark.

I would say I don't fear death in my own home but it could happen. Now if I was told by someone that I had to go to Congo, I'd have a fear that someone would try to kill me. I'd stand out like a sore thumb. Now if God could mark me some way to offer protection, I'd feel a lot better.

gordon 2 · Jan 26, 2018

Artfuldodger said:
If Cain had God's protection from murder in Eden, why didn't Abel? It was Cain's "being without God" that caused his fear. Yet God still stood by him by giving him his mark.

I would say I don't fear death in my own home but it could happen. Now if I was told by someone that I had to go to Congo, I'd have a fear that someone would try to kill me. I'd stand out like a sore thumb. Now if God could mark me some way to offer protection, I'd feel a lot better.

The Mark was the curse maybe? Does not mean that he would not be killed, but that others were aware they would be cursed if they killed him.... (hum... sounds familiar for some reason...) so they thought twice about killing a murderer ( Cain).

Israel · Jan 27, 2018

Then the LORD said to Cain, "Where is Abel your brother?" And he said, "I do not know. Am I my brother's keeper?"

The wicked flee when none pursueth.

1gr8bldr · Jan 27, 2018

The bible is full of questions. Why was Cains sacrifice not acceptable? Why, where were they offering a sacrifice and to whom. Was there a sort of temple set up? Who would be the priest to receive the sacrifice? Or did they just let the blood run out on the ground and the fruit rot? And, where was Cain's protection if they were in the presence of the Lord. Being able to stand before God, walk and talk with him, and then be murdered by a jealous brother. Abel is credited with being righteous. Do we base this simply on a sacrifice. Was it because his sacrifice was of the firstborn? Are we missing key information to the story? Was Cain's life that of someone cursed? He had a wife, family, seemingly no different than anyone else. Did he roam in fear of his life, no. Why does other scriptures reference a story so seemingly messed up. Like Job, did his family mean nothing to God. Were they insignificant. Why did David get to chose his punishment, and what major loss was it that he lives and his son pays his price with his life? Why did lot offer his virgin daughters to a mob, "here take them", allowing a daughter, the first one whom comes out the door of his home, to be a sacrifice after returning from winning a battle. Why would God spare Sodom if he found only 5 righteous and then save Lot who offered his daughters to be raped by a mob. He should have left him. The fact is, the book we call the bible is full of stories that make no sense. That make God out to be a God of Love and hate. What if you are Jobs children, Lots daughters, Davids firstborn, etc, would you then call God a just God, a God of love? If I assumed every word of the bible to be true, factual, I would likely not love God. I would fear him. There is a difference. They are not the same. And the injustices we see written would turn my stomach if I thought they were exactly true. Truth is, the bible is a book written by men. It contains mans efforts to tell stories as they know them. Picking apart these man made stories trying to make sense of it will lead you down a dark path. That is if you look at all the stories, not just a few handpicked. The sum of the scriptures, not the details tell us a beautiful story. The details, tell a different story.

hobbs27 · Jan 27, 2018

Artfuldodger said:
I don't believe it was his own family members that were living very far from the land of Eden. I don't think he had many family members when he was kicked out of Eden.
Cain's mom said "God has granted me another child in place of Abel, since Cain killed him" when Seth was born.

So why would all of these stranger want to kill Cain? Would it be that he looked different than they did? Did he look guilty of murder? Was it a much more barbaric world he was about to enter? Maybe he looked European and they looked Mongol.
If God suddenly put me in a barbaric time period and place, I would hope he marked me. I wonder how they knew God's mark if they didn't know God.

The obvious question posed to young earth creationist is who, if not his family, which is certainly not likely, Who could these people possibly be since they claim only his family was on earth at the time?

welderguy · Jan 27, 2018

hobbs27 said:
The obvious question posed to young earth creationist is who, if not his family, which is certainly not likely, Who could these people possibly be since they claim only his family was on earth at the time?

What part of "be fruitful and multiply" don't you understand?

welderguy · Jan 27, 2018

1gr8bldr said:
The bible is full of questions. Why was Cains sacrifice not acceptable? Why, where were they offering a sacrifice and to whom. Was there a sort of temple set up? Who would be the priest to receive the sacrifice? Or did they just let the blood run out on the ground and the fruit rot? And, where was Cain's protection if they were in the presence of the Lord. Being able to stand before God, walk and talk with him, and then be murdered by a jealous brother. Abel is credited with being righteous. Do we base this simply on a sacrifice. Was it because his sacrifice was of the firstborn? Are we missing key information to the story? Was Cain's life that of someone cursed? He had a wife, family, seemingly no different than anyone else. Did he roam in fear of his life, no. Why does other scriptures reference a story so seemingly messed up. Like Job, did his family mean nothing to God. Were they insignificant. Why did David get to chose his punishment, and what major loss was it that he lives and his son pays his price with his life? Why did lot offer his virgin daughters to a mob, "here take them", allowing a daughter, the first one whom comes out the door of his home, to be a sacrifice after returning from winning a battle. Why would God spare Sodom if he found only 5 righteous and then save Lot who offered his daughters to be raped by a mob. He should have left him. The fact is, the book we call the bible is full of stories that make no sense. That make God out to be a God of Love and hate. What if you are Jobs children, Lots daughters, Davids firstborn, etc, would you then call God a just God, a God of love? If I assumed every word of the bible to be true, factual, I would likely not love God. I would fear him. There is a difference. They are not the same. And the injustices we see written would turn my stomach if I thought they were exactly true. Truth is, the bible is a book written by men. It contains mans efforts to tell stories as they know them. Picking apart these man made stories trying to make sense of it will lead you down a dark path. That is if you look at all the stories, not just a few handpicked. The sum of the scriptures, not the details tell us a beautiful story. The details, tell a different story.

Read Heb. 11 about Abel's faith. That is what made his sacrifice acceptable. Without faith it is impossible to please God.
But remember,God is the author and finisher of that faith. It cometh by the hearing of the Word of God. This Word was with God, and WAS God. The Word was and is Jesus Christ.

GunnSmokeer · Jan 27, 2018

Related question: WHY did God save Cain from the natural and righteous application of the death penalty for murder, when
(1) God himself killed people all the time for much smaller sins, throughout the Old Testament, and even in the N.T. a couple of times.
(2) God of the O.T. often tells the people that they must all participate in the killing of sinners. Not optional. You WILL gather together and you ALL will throw those stones!

gordon 2 · Jan 27, 2018

1gr8bldr said:
The bible is full of questions. Why was Cains sacrifice not acceptable? Why, where were they offering a sacrifice and to whom. Was there a sort of temple set up? Who would be the priest to receive the sacrifice? Or did they just let the blood run out on the ground and the fruit rot? And, where was Cain's protection if they were in the presence of the Lord. Being able to stand before God, walk and talk with him, and then be murdered by a jealous brother. Abel is credited with being righteous. Do we base this simply on a sacrifice. Was it because his sacrifice was of the firstborn? Are we missing key information to the story? Was Cain's life that of someone cursed? He had a wife, family, seemingly no different than anyone else. Did he roam in fear of his life, no. Why does other scriptures reference a story so seemingly messed up. Like Job, did his family mean nothing to God. Were they insignificant. Why did David get to chose his punishment, and what major loss was it that he lives and his son pays his price with his life? Why did lot offer his virgin daughters to a mob, "here take them", allowing a daughter, the first one whom comes out the door of his home, to be a sacrifice after returning from winning a battle. Why would God spare Sodom if he found only 5 righteous and then save Lot who offered his daughters to be raped by a mob. He should have left him. The fact is, the book we call the bible is full of stories that make no sense. That make God out to be a God of Love and hate. What if you are Jobs children, Lots daughters, Davids firstborn, etc, would you then call God a just God, a God of love? If I assumed every word of the bible to be true, factual, I would likely not love God. I would fear him. There is a difference. They are not the same. And the injustices we see written would turn my stomach if I thought they were exactly true. Truth is, the bible is a book written by men. It contains mans efforts to tell stories as they know them. Picking apart these man made stories trying to make sense of it will lead you down a dark path. That is if you look at all the stories, not just a few handpicked. The sum of the scriptures, not the details tell us a beautiful story. The details, tell a different story.

You ever try to write a book and you'll find out that every T, every I, every dot, every word got to count for somethin... every detail is part of the weave to a big picture yes. But detail is often revealing of spiritual reality which is taken up by saints and other prophets who build on the God inspired words--but the big picture can be in the details. So a close reading will sometimes bring a revelation to someone depending to where they are individually at in their walk? No?

So the as an example barren Hannah, the eventual mother of Samuel, was loved by her husband so that she got extra ( worthy) portions of portions of meat as compared to his other wife... who had children. I think there is good God nature in why her husband was doing this... Hannah could be considered poor as she had not children and because of this poverty and her husband's love for her she got (worthy) portions of meat!

Now I have to ask, is this a type of how we should act towards the poor? and who are poor to no fault of their own? We should love them? and give them "worthy" portions of food? Hum? If I combine this notion with what God did for the world through Jesus Savior... hum...? I have to wonder about my walk in Christ? And this all started with Hannah the barren wife of a man who loved her and who would become Samuel's mother. Hannah means grace by the way. So today if she was living she might have been known a Gracie.

hobbs27 · Jan 27, 2018

welderguy said:
What part of "be fruitful and multiply" don't you understand?

1. God, not Cain's brothers drove him out.

2. If Cain's brothers lived nearby,
A. What mark would satiate them?
B. No mark would be needed to let them know Cain was protected.

3. If Cain's brothers had already left town,
A. Why had they been driven out? Who did they kill?
B. How would they know Cain killed Abel?
C. Why did they let Cain subjugate them?

gordon 2 · Jan 27, 2018

hobbs27 said:
The obvious question posed to young earth creationist is who, if not his family, which is certainly not likely, Who could these people possibly be since they claim only his family was on earth at the time?

So this is the reason you posted the question? Who was Cain afraid of?

A youngen of the young earth folk could say... well he was afraid of himself.. and for his offspring. He knew what could be in em to make em unsettled

So God provided a curse to the folk that would do like Cain did... which resounds as the cause of much depravity in the world and so the burning of it.

1gr8bldr · Jan 27, 2018

welderguy said:
Read Heb. 11 about Abel's faith. That is what made his sacrifice acceptable. Without faith it is impossible to please God.
But remember,God is the author and finisher of that faith. It cometh by the hearing of the Word of God. This Word was with God, and WAS God. The Word was and is Jesus Christ.

Abel had faith in what? At that time in history, the notion of "faith" did not exist. And his good sacrifice got him killed while Cain lived on to enjoy life.

Artfuldodger · Jan 27, 2018

1gr8bldr said:
Abel had faith in what? At that time in history, the notion of "faith" did not exist. And his good sacrifice got him killed while Cain lived on to enjoy life.

And got God's protection. Maybe it's a lesson on election.

gordon 2 · Jan 27, 2018

1gr8bldr said:
Abel had faith in what? At that time in history, the notion of "faith" did not exist. And his good sacrifice got him killed while Cain lived on to enjoy life.

Maybe the notion did not, but the life of faith most likely did.

hobbs27 · Jan 27, 2018

1gr8bldr said:
Abel had faith in what? At that time in history, the notion of "faith" did not exist. And his good sacrifice got him killed while Cain lived on to enjoy life.

How do you know faith wasn't a notion?

Why do you think Cain went on to enjoy life? Emphasis on enjoy.

1gr8bldr · Jan 27, 2018

hobbs27 said:
How do you know faith wasn't a notion?

Why do you think Cain went on to enjoy life? Emphasis on enjoy.

Faith for what? When in the OT did we see first see faith? Faith that God exists? This would imply that God appeared to his parents and to Cain but not him.

hobbs27 · Jan 27, 2018

1gr8bldr said:
Faith for what? When in the OT did we see first see faith? Faith that God exists? This would imply that God appeared to his parents and to Cain but not him.

Faith for what?... Reconciliation.

When in the OT did we first see faith? In Abels offering.

Faith that God exists? No, faith as in hope... They were told one day reconciliation would come and the seed of Eve would bruise his head.

Who was Cain afraid of?

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