Problem

ddd-shooter said:

There is a lot of debate on the sovereignty of God, and that leads me to wonder how many answer this question...

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I'm one of those sovereignty weirdos and I get my answer to the question from Job 38-42. Romans 9 also influences my thinking. If it stands to reason that God could create vessels of wrath in order to make known his glory for the vessels of mercy, I could understand a sovereign God permitting evil in order to make his creation fully understand goodness.

Coffee is good. Coffee with dark chocolate is better. Sometimes contrast is the only way to truly appreciate something.

DDD, I agree that God gives us a clear choice to choose life or death, blessings and cuses.

15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, 16 in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the LORD your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess. 17 But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I announce to you today that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to go in and possess. 19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; (Deu 30)

15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” (Joshua 24)



What is the will of God regarding salvation of man??

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (1 Timothy 2:4).

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9).

<O"For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." (1 Corinthians 1:21)

Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. (Matthew 18:14)

<OThis is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” (John 6:39-40)<O<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

johnnylightnin said:

I'm one of those sovereignty weirdos and I get my answer to the question from Job 38-42. Romans 9 also influences my thinking. If it stands to reason that God could create vessels of wrath in order to make known his glory for the vessels of mercy, I could understand a sovereign God permitting evil in order to make his creation fully understand goodness.

Coffee is good. Coffee with dark chocolate is better. Sometimes contrast is the only way to truly appreciate something.

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Yep.
God says...look at my mercy in that I put up with such disobedience...so you vessels made for mercy will see just how merciful I am.
Likewise we imagine we are more offended by evil than God is...why don't you just wipe it out?
He did...in Christ.
The man in Christ sees God's plan and forbearance...the man outside says...why not just get rid of it now...not knowing if all evildoers were destroyed, he himself might be cut off.
Sometimes when I feel "fed up" and want God to just do a quick work and get rid of all these miserable evildoers...he reminds me how much in the flesh I am...and that what would have happened to me had he obeyed that prayer of some other believer the day before I came to him?
Now, God will, for his glory do what he wills with what opposes him and his goodness. But if I want Jesus to appear just to satisfy my sense of vengeance...I get a good realignment. Now, He does want me to long for him to appear...the way a wife longs for her husband to come home from a journey...yeah, sure, his return will also keep the dogs away...but if that's the only reason she wants him back...does she really love him?
Or in the case of the Lord...know him at all?

rjcruiser said:

Now...everyone is stained by that sin. According to Rom 10, we can't choose anything other than evil....unless the Holy Spirit makes us alive in Him.

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That ain't true.

Dixie Dawg said:

That ain't true.

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Thanks for setting me straight Dixie....

ddd-shooter said:

willie-
I am referring to the fact that God is all-powerful and all knowing and ever-present; and yet there is evil in the world.
Some say that not one person can do anything outside of the will of God. I have heard it said that God is absolutely in charge of everything on the earth-if that is so, God is in charge of the evil on the earth.

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We will never understand God, He's beyond our comprehension.

Isa 55:6 ¶ Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Pr 24:17 ¶ Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth:
18 Lest the LORD see it, and it displease him, and he turn away his wrath from him.

''We will never understand God, He's beyond our comprehension''
That's an odd thing to say . Correct me if I err. The bible is God's inspired word. Every one on this forum can and does tell you what his word says and means. Literally and figuratively .

Ronnie T said:

To choose how to serve God??? I disagree.

To choose to serve God or not??? I agree.

.

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Ditto completely

earl said:

''We will never understand God, He's beyond our comprehension''
That's an odd thing to say . Correct me if I err. The bible is God's inspired word. Every one on this forum can and does tell you what his word says and means. Literally and figuratively .

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The Bible is a "guide" for how one should live.

For eaxample: When you buy a TV, you get an instruction book (guide) telling you how to use it. It does not explain all of the engineering behind why the magic picture shows up on a box plugged in your wall.

Yes but if I screw up the big screen because I miss read the instructions I can go get a new one.

earl said:

Yes but if I screw up the big screen because I miss read the instructions I can go get a new one.

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Once you get this big screen, you can screw it up, and it can be replaced no matter how broke you make it.

All you have to do is sign up, someone has already made ALL the payments and it comes with an AWESOME warrantee!

Ya'll are killing me tonite. LOL

farmasis said:

Once you get this big screen, you can screw it up, and it can be replaced no matter how broke you make it.

All you have to do is sign up, someone has already made ALL the payments and it comes with an AWESOME warrantee!

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Well here's a first for me.
A big screen tv used as a teaching aid.
Way to go farmasis.

Ronnie T said:

Well here's a first for me.
A big screen tv used as a teaching aid.
Way to go farmasis.

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dawg started it.

Wheather we want to admit it or not, God is always in control and we need to always work to remember that. God ALWAYS has the power to control whatever he wants to control.

Saying that I will say this, God doesn't want to control our every walk, he wants us to follow him as a free will. He wants us to choose him as our king. When we choose him that makes us more valuable in the kingdom.

Yes we have the right to choose. Yes God is all powerful.

JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE A RIGHT TO DO SOMETHING DOESN'T MAKE IT THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

We do not have the right to choose the wrong way and then expect God to be happy with our choice. Sometimes we have the idea that surely God will not condemn me for such a small thing.
May I ask you, what is smaller than taking a bite out of a piece of fruit? The sin is not in the fruit but in the disobediance.

Letting us choose is one way of proving that God is in control because we will be held responsible for our choices.

Good post's.