When and If

christianhunter · Sep 13, 2009

Everyone can respond on this,if they want to.THE LORD JESUS is a recorded historical person,as much as anyone who has ever lived.It is only the belief in HIM being GOD,that seperates believers,from unbelievers.There were two thieves on either side of HIM at HIS,documented Cruxifiction,Biblically and secularly.One said "If" YOU are THE SON OF GOD,save YOURSELF and us.The other said,JESUS remember me "When" you enter into your Kingdom.Faith perfectly described,with the use of two words in two statements.

jason4445 · Sep 13, 2009

Hate to burst your God bubble there, but I am a believer and cannot find one thing that makes Jesus a God. He did walk the earth and mentioned in the Koran, in Jewish documents and by Roman historians. The Bible never said Jesus was a God, Jesus never once said he was a God, and Christian Creeds even after his death and resurrection never say he was a God = he ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father almighty. Jesus did not have his "God seat or throne" but sat next to God.

Jesus never once claimed to have God powers saying that all that came through him came from God the Father. No one on earth called him God. They did however call him teacher - Rabbi - which in Hebrew means teacher.

I am a believer and believe that Jesus was what he said he was - the Son of God.

christianhunter · Sep 13, 2009

jason4445 said:
Hate to burst your God bubble there, but I am a believer and cannot find one thing that makes Jesus a God. He did walk the earth and mentioned in the Koran, in Jewish documents and by Roman historians. The Bible never said Jesus was a God, Jesus never once said he was a God, and Christian Creeds even after his death and resurrection never say he was a God = he ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father almighty. Jesus did not have his "God seat or throne" but sat next to God.

Jesus never once claimed to have God powers saying that all that came through him came from God the Father. No one on earth called him God. They did however call him teacher - Rabbi - which in Hebrew means teacher.

I am a believer and believe that Jesus was what he said he was - the Son of God.

Read the 1st chapter Of John,matter of fact read the New Testament!
Thomas for one called HIM GOD,when HE appeared to the Disciples,and Thomas saw the scars on HIS hands,feet,and side.JESUS said,"When you see ME,you have saw THE FATHER,THE FATHER and I are ONE."
You didn't burst a bubble for me,but you do have me wondering.

gordon 2 · Sep 13, 2009

christianhunter said:
Everyone can respond on this,if they want to.THE LORD JESUS is a recorded historical person,as much as anyone who has ever lived.It is only the belief in HIM being GOD,that seperates believers,from unbelievers.There were two thieves on either side of HIM at HIS,documented Cruxifiction,Biblically and secularly.One said "If" YOU are THE SON OF GOD,save YOURSELF and us.The other said,JESUS remember me "When" you enter into your Kingdom.Faith perfectly described,with the use of two words in two statements.

One man asked for physical salvation or relief from suffering? ; the other offered our Lord a great dignity by calling him King and by which he served the Lord. And as a servant he was indeed in the Kingdom the very moment he spoke.

Ronnie T · Sep 13, 2009

This can be a great discussion thread.

As a matter of discussion, if Jesus is God, who was that who died on the cross?

gordon 2 · Sep 13, 2009

Ronnie T said:
This can be a great discussion thread.

As a matter of discussion, if Jesus is God, who was that who died on the cross?

You and I or all of mankind. All are called to the last hours and the darkest abyss from which we all die at the foot of the cross, and yet for it, latter the resurection from which all is to renew. Creation itself is born again.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Iu6MaLLi7SA&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Iu6MaLLi7SA&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

christianhunter · Sep 13, 2009

Ronnie T said:
This can be a great discussion thread.

As a matter of discussion, if Jesus is God, who was that who died on the cross?

JESUS died,on the Cross.HE was conceived of THE HOLY SPIRIT,through HIS virgin mother.Thus making HIM,100% MAN/100% GOD.The universe cannot contain GOD,how could the body of a man?

formula1 · Sep 13, 2009

christianhunter said:
JESUS died,on the Cross.HE was conceived of THE HOLY SPIRIT,through HIS virgin mother.Thus making HIM,100% MAN/100% GOD.The universe cannot contain GOD,how could the body of a man?

Amen, CH, Amen!

jason4445 · Sep 14, 2009

"Thomas for one called HIM GOD,when HE appeared to the Disciples,and Thomas saw the scars on HIS hands,feet,and side.JESUS said,"When you see ME,you have saw THE FATHER,THE FATHER and I are ONE."

Okay you kind of gotten a few things confused. Thomas said from John once he saw the scars"

28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

Thomas did not call Jesus God - he called him my God. Jesus can be individually considered what ever you wish - a Lord, a King, even a God to you personally. Individuals have all sorts of Gods, but collectively in the Bible he is never called "GOD"

Also further in that passage Jesus again calls himself what he is, the Son of God. In that passage Jesus never says "THE FATHER and I are ONE."

Quote: "Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may[a] believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Jesus does say in another part of John that the father and I are one which again relates back to Jesus being the Son of God.

I personally are one with my father, we are similar in many ways just as Jesus is similar with God, but personally my father and I are different in many was just as Jesus is different in many ways from his father our God.

Really all the proof you need to determine if Jesus is a God is the first of the ten commandments - Thy shall have no other God (s) before me." Even Jesus his son.

christianhunter · Sep 14, 2009

jason4445 said:
"Thomas for one called HIM GOD,when HE appeared to the Disciples,and Thomas saw the scars on HIS hands,feet,and side.JESUS said,"When you see ME,you have saw THE FATHER,THE FATHER and I are ONE."

Okay you kind of gotten a few things confused. Thomas said from John once he saw the scars"

28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

Thomas did not call Jesus God - he called him my God. Jesus can be individually considered what ever you wish - a Lord, a King, even a God to you personally. Individuals have all sorts of Gods, but collectively in the Bible he is never called "GOD"

Also further in that passage Jesus again calls himself what he is, the Son of God. In that passage Jesus never says "THE FATHER and I are ONE."

Quote: "Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may[a] believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Jesus does say in another part of John that the father and I are one which again relates back to Jesus being the Son of God.

I personally are one with my father, we are similar in many ways just as Jesus is similar with God, but personally my father and I are different in many was just as Jesus is different in many ways from his father our God.

Really all the proof you need to determine if Jesus is a God is the first of the ten commandments - Thy shall have no other God (s) before me." Even Jesus his son.

Jason,no offense intended,believe me.You are trying,you need to talk to your Pastor.If he agrees,you need to find another Church.I'm not going to go back and forth with you on this,you lack understanding of this,in Scripture.

farmasis · Sep 14, 2009

jason4445 said:
"Thomas for one called HIM GOD,when HE appeared to the Disciples,and Thomas saw the scars on HIS hands,feet,and side.JESUS said,"When you see ME,you have saw THE FATHER,THE FATHER and I are ONE."

Okay you kind of gotten a few things confused. Thomas said from John once he saw the scars"

28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

Thomas did not call Jesus God - he called him my God. Jesus can be individually considered what ever you wish - a Lord, a King, even a God to you personally. Individuals have all sorts of Gods, but collectively in the Bible he is never called "GOD"

God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory. (1 Tim 3:16)

Also further in that passage Jesus again calls himself what he is, the Son of God. In that passage Jesus never says "THE FATHER and I are ONE."

30 I and My Father are one. (John 10)

Jesus does say in another part of John that the father and I are one which again relates back to Jesus being the Son of God.

I personally are one with my father, we are similar in many ways just as Jesus is similar with God, but personally my father and I are different in many was just as Jesus is different in many ways from his father our God.

No, the Jews understood the Jesus was saying he was God. They attempted to stone him for saying such in the same passage

33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.” (John 10)

Really all the proof you need to determine if Jesus is a God is the first of the ten commandments - Thy shall have no other God (s) before me." Even Jesus his son.

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; (Genesis 1)

God is a trinity.

Other scripture refering to Jesus as God.

16 Then fear came upon all, and they glorified God, saying, “A great prophet has risen up among us”; and, “God has visited His people.” (Luke 7)

To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ (2 Peter 1)

13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ (Titus 2)

5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, (Phil 2)

Ronnie T · Sep 15, 2009

farmasis said:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory. (1 Tim 3:16)

30 I and My Father are one. (John 10)

No, the Jews understood the Jesus was saying he was God. They attempted to stone him for saying such in the same passage

33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.” (John 10)

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; (Genesis 1)

God is a trinity.

Other scripture refering to Jesus as God.

16 Then fear came upon all, and they glorified God, saying, “A great prophet has risen up among us”; and, “God has visited His people.” (Luke 7)

To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ (2 Peter 1)

13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ (Titus 2)

5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, (Phil 2)

When someone asks, how do you marry what you've said above to Jesus' baptism(God speaking to Him from heaven).
And again, as Jesus lay face down in the dirt praying to God that the cross might be taken away?

I understand you to say that God and the Son are the same exact Holy being. If so, why would God pray to Himself?

I believe God and God's Son are One. But I also believe Jesus Christ has His own seperate conscience. Christ abides along-side God, not in God's mind.

farmasis · Sep 15, 2009

Ronnie T said:
When someone asks, how do you marry what you've said above to Jesus' baptism(God speaking to Him from heaven).
And again, as Jesus lay face down in the dirt praying to God that the cross might be taken away?

I understand you to say that God and the Son are the same exact Holy being. If so, why would God pray to Himself?

I believe God and God's Son are One. But I also believe Jesus Christ has His own seperate conscience. Christ abides along-side God, not in God's mind.

I marry it to what scripture says.

God is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. They combined are God. They alone are distinct personalities of God.

christianhunter · Sep 15, 2009

farmasis said:
I marry it to what scripture says.

God is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. They combined are God. They alone are distinct personalities of God.

Honestly,I have asked the same question,as Ronnie,was JESUS praying to HIMSELF?
HE was praying to THE FATHER.JESUS made HIMSELF,a little lower than the Angels when HE came to earth.HE has always been with THE FATHER.JESUS Is GOD,as we know,and I don't think man,in our finite mind can explain THE TRINITY.THE HOLY SPIRIT guides us to THE SON,THE SON guides us to THE FATHER.AS you said Brother,Three distinct personalities,ONE GOD.

wholenotem · Sep 15, 2009

jason4445 said:
Hate to burst your God bubble there, but I am a believer and cannot find one thing that makes Jesus a God. He did walk the earth and mentioned in the Koran, in Jewish documents and by Roman historians. The Bible never said Jesus was a God, Jesus never once said he was a God, and Christian Creeds even after his death and resurrection never say he was a God = he ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father almighty. Jesus did not have his "God seat or throne" but sat next to God.

Jesus never once claimed to have God powers saying that all that came through him came from God the Father. No one on earth called him God. They did however call him teacher - Rabbi - which in Hebrew means teacher.

I am a believer and believe that Jesus was what he said he was - the Son of God.

Will you ever open your bible and read it.

Ronnie T · Sep 15, 2009

If you want to better understand the relationship between God and His Son read John 17.

Read it closely.

John 17:1Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You,
2even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life.

3"This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

4"I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do.

5"Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

6"I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.

7"Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You;

8for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me.

9"I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours;

10and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them.

11"I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.

12"While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.

Now, describe God and Jesus' relationship.

christianhunter · Sep 15, 2009

Ronnie T said:
If you want to better understand the relationship between God and His Son read John 17.

Read it closely.

John 17:1Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You,
2even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life.

3"This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

4"I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do.

5"Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

6"I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.

7"Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You;

8for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me.

9"I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours;

10and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them.

11"I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.

12"While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.

Now, describe God and Jesus' relationship.

Brother,JESUS Is THE SON Of GOD,HE was a Man while HE was on earth,HE was also GOD.JESUS made HIMSELF a little lower than the Angels.HE prayed to THE FATHER,HE was led by THE HOLY SPIRIT.I cannot explain THE HOLY TRINITY,as I have said earlier,GOD is not confined to this realm we live in.The spiritual realm is vastly different.Science has said for years there are actually 9 dimensions,instead of 3.Now they think there may be 11.The truth is they may just be on the threshhold,if they are even that close.

When and If

christianhunter

Senior Member

jason4445

Senior Member

christianhunter

Senior Member

gordon 2

Senior Member

Ronnie T

Ol' Retired Mod

gordon 2

Senior Member

christianhunter

Senior Member

formula1

Daily Bible Verse Organizer

jason4445

Senior Member

christianhunter

Senior Member

farmasis

Senior Member

Ronnie T

Ol' Retired Mod

farmasis

Senior Member

christianhunter

Senior Member

wholenotem

Senior Member

Ronnie T

Ol' Retired Mod

christianhunter

Senior Member

Similar threads

Latest posts

Share this page