Is this a Persimmon Tree?

bnew17 · Oct 9, 2016

Ive got a bunch of these trees along the roads of my property. The majority do not have fruit, but i am thinking they are a male persimmon tree. I do have some fruit bearing persimmons on the property, but not ad many as non fruit bearing persimmons (or so i yjink they are persimmons). First question: Is this a persimmon? Second Question: If it is a Persimmon, can i plant a female next to it to mske it bear fruit or does that not work with Persimmons?

Nicodemus · Oct 9, 2016

Yep, it`s a persimmon. Can`t help you on the male-female tree issue.

Forest Grump · Oct 10, 2016

Only females bear fruit, & only in the proximity of a male.

There are 2 ways you could have clusters of non-bearing trees: all in the cluster are male, or all are female & there are no males nearby enough for pollinators to visit them both. For fruit to form the seed must be pollinated.

To know which sex a tree is, in the absence of fruit, you must examine the flowers (both flower, but the flowers look a little different & differ in their arrangement on a branch). If you know how to graft, you can change a male to a female, thus providing the necessaries for fruit, & get a result a lot faster than planting a seed, seedling, or small tree. Plus, if the cluster is all male (persimmons will root-copse & form a clump of "clones"), planting a female next to them will produce 1 tree that has fruit (the new one you planted), & all the males will still have no fruit.

QDMA has a good article called "Sex Among the Persimmons" & another good one on grafting persimmons on their site:

https://www.qdma.com/sex-among-persimmons/

https://www.qdma.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Grafting-Persimmons.pdf

bnew17 · Oct 10, 2016

Forest Grump said:
Only females bear fruit, & only in the proximity of a male.

There are 2 ways you could have clusters of non-bearing trees: all in the cluster are male, or all are female & there are no males nearby enough for pollinators to visit them both. For fruit to form the seed must be pollinated.

To know which sex a tree is, in the absence of fruit, you must examine the flowers (both flower, but the flowers look a little different & differ in their arrangement on a branch). If you know how to graft, you can change a male to a female, thus providing the necessaries for fruit, & get a result a lot faster than planting a seed, seedling, or small tree. Plus, if the cluster is all male (persimmons will root-copse & form a clump of "clones"), planting a female next to them will produce 1 tree that has fruit (the new one you planted), & all the males will still have no fruit.

QDMA has a good article called "Sex Among the Persimmons" & another good one on grafting persimmons on their site:

https://www.qdma.com/sex-among-persimmons/

https://www.qdma.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Grafting-Persimmons.pdf

Very interesting grafting article. The fruit bearing trees I have are spindly probably from competition from other plants and lack of care/nutrients I assume.

Have you personally tried this? I am sure it works, I just wonder how difficult it may be.

I have a neighbor down the road from me who has several towering beautiful fruit bearing persimmon trees I could get quality scions from. The article says to prune undesirable shoots for 2 years, but does not say how long to expect before you start seeing fruit to know if it worked. I assume 2-3 years?

Judging by how many trees I see on the side of the road I have to think that my late grandfather must have planted most of them at some point, but the trees for the most part have trunks smaller than your forearm and are 10ft roughly in height.

Forest Grump · Oct 11, 2016

Yes, I have done it with a high degree of success (but I already knew how to graft, for which there is a bit of a learning curve, although it's not brain surgery, anybody can do it). Persimmons take very well to the bark grafting technique described in the article, provided you do it at the correct time & keep it from drying out until it takes.

Persimmons will grow in the worst soil in the woods, but are not fast growing; they require lots of patience & may take years & years to fruit. In the swamp growing in a competitive environment they can grow into 50-75' trees 20+" dbh but in the open, they are usually a very small, bushy tree rarely 30" tall, but with more fruit. The ones along your roads were most likely planted by critters walking down them (coons, possums, deer, hogs, even coyotes love persimmons but those seed are near impossible to digest).

elfiii · Oct 11, 2016

Forest Grump said:
The ones along your roads were most likely planted by critters walking down them (coons, possums, deer, hogs, even coyotes love persimmons but those seed are near impossible to digest).

I see persimmon seeds all over the place in scat on my place but I have yet to locate the trees.

Last Minute · Oct 12, 2016

elfiii said:
I see persimmon seeds all over the place in scat on my place but I have yet to locate the trees.

Same here..there must be a few close by because the coyote scat is loaded with seeds at my place

shakey gizzard · Oct 14, 2016

Some say seeds that have passed through a gut are more likely to geminate, due to the acids removing the hardcoat(scarification). Ever wonder why there aren't hundreds of seedlings below the parent tree?

northgeorgiasportsman · Oct 14, 2016

shakey gizzard said:
Ever wonder why there aren't hundreds of seedlings below the parent tree?

Because every critter in the woods eats them as soon as they hit the ground and carry off the seeds to deposit them elsewhere.

shakey gizzard · Oct 14, 2016

northgeorgiasportsman said:
Because every critter in the woods eats them as soon as they hit the ground and carry off the seeds to deposit them elsewhere.

Throw a hundred ripe fruit in a protected prime garden spot, and let me know your germination #'s.

I've found tree's (50ftrs) that only the boldest of critters would dare venture to go eat, and most the fruit rot away where they fall. Not a single seedling!

Forest Grump · Oct 14, 2016

shakey gizzard said:
Throw a hundred ripe fruit in a protected prime garden spot, and let me know your germination #'s. I've found tree's (50ftrs) that only the boldest of critters would dare venture to go eat, and most the fruit rot away where they fall. Not a single seedling!

Isn't that interesting/neat/confusing... :huh:

I do think those seed benefit from passage through a digestive system. BUT, I have seen trees, in town, loaded with fruit, not a single seedling under them. If you cut that tree down, 20 clones will pop up from the roots. Are they allelopathic? I don't know... They don't seem to inhibit other species & form monocultures like some tree species. Persimmons are a fascinating tree.

bnew17 · May 7, 2017

Forest Grump said:
Only females bear fruit, & only in the proximity of a male.

There are 2 ways you could have clusters of non-bearing trees: all in the cluster are male, or all are female & there are no males nearby enough for pollinators to visit them both. For fruit to form the seed must be pollinated.

To know which sex a tree is, in the absence of fruit, you must examine the flowers (both flower, but the flowers look a little different & differ in their arrangement on a branch). If you know how to graft, you can change a male to a female, thus providing the necessaries for fruit, & get a result a lot faster than planting a seed, seedling, or small tree. Plus, if the cluster is all male (persimmons will root-copse & form a clump of "clones"), planting a female next to them will produce 1 tree that has fruit (the new one you planted), & all the males will still have no fruit.

QDMA has a good article called "Sex Among the Persimmons" & another good one on grafting persimmons on their site:

https://www.qdma.com/sex-among-persimmons/

https://www.qdma.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Grafting-Persimmons.pdf

I noticed a flowering persimmon tree yesterday on our property. A weak looking shoot overcrowded by other trees around it. There were several other persimmon trees around within 5-10 yards not flowering. I am assuming these are males. I thought thr males would flower/produce fruit when nearby a female?

NCHillbilly · May 7, 2017

bnew17 said:
I noticed a flowering persimmon tree yesterday on our property. A weak looking shoot overcrowded by other trees around it. There were several other persimmon trees around within 5-10 yards not flowering. I am assuming these are males. I thought thr males would flower/produce fruit when nearby a female?

Both male and female trees flower. On the males, the flowers will be in clusters. On the females the flowers will be individual.

Redbow · May 7, 2017

I have a persimmon tree in my yard its about 30 feet tall and it bears fruit each year which I eat if there is any left after a couple of good frosts. All around our property little persimmon trees come up here and there but not where I would like to save a couple more of the trees..Mostly they come up where I need to mow. I have planted a few of the seeds from the fruit but they did not germinate, maybe they need to pass thru the digestive system of an animal before they will germinate, not sure about that though..

bhouston · May 12, 2017

The best way to definitely tel;l male from female is the fruit. I had a 15 foot persimmon tree on my tract that did not produce fruit and I assumed it was a male. I cleared around the tree and completely daylighted the tree - the next year it had fruit all over it. Sometimes fruit trees wont grow fruit for lack of open sunshine.

Is this a Persimmon Tree?

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