Nashville Statement reactions

Israel

BANNED
I'm reminded of the parable of the prodigal son. It shows us who God excepts. The brother who stayed and obeyed? He resented his Father's mercy.

This is as much as message about this brother as the returning brother. He actually resented his Father's mercy.
Yes. He did. He resented the Father's goodness so much he "got in his face" about it, came clean about his view of things, thought he was wronged deeply.

But we would be wrong (would we not?) to condemn the "good" brother, for the father didn't. Who are we to judge another man's servant?

But here's a point we dare not miss in the father's non-rebuke of that brother, who bore enough rebuke in finding out he has been all wrong about his view in everything, at least relationship wise. He got to find out in his being "all wrong" just how much better things have always been, though he didn't know it.


"All I have is yours..." This brother didn't ever even have to ask for a kid, or a fatted calf, or any of the things he thought were "not his" that he labored for. He could have partied with his friends at any time...and the only thing keeping him from that...was himself. His view. His own understanding...of both who and what his father was like, and his relationship in that.

We could ask "had the prodigal never gone away, been returned to such reception of mercy, would the "good" son ever have been able to come to this?" It seems he needed something to so shock his sensibilities that he would confront his father to learn the truth.

Mercy is shocking. Who "gets" it...who is a candidate for it, and what it is displayed...against. I think that the "good" son, when seeing how wrong he has been might have learned the need for his prodigal brother, the allowance for him, so that he could be brought to his right senses. And there he might find...he was no less "wrong" than this brother whose actions he condemned.

I am fairly sure he had an affection for thinking he was the "better" son. God only knows how much this "affection" was a wrong motivation. The prodigal's motivation "I just can't bear being this miserable any longer...but, in my father's house..." was equally askew. But he had the temerity to come home and ask (though he never got the chance) to just live as a servant.

Yeah, Daddy waits. We all have our questions.
 

gordon 2

Senior Member
Can it be the inexpressible that only the poet knows? (or, if not only...knows so well?)

That struggle is also the chiefest of joys? To be made able...to be about something?

Isaiah and his minions were perhaps great poets and knew to express their faith with poetry very well.

All I know is some of the politics of love. It is not always a joy. To be about something, I simply glean bits from love who's bits become mountains, dreams and from bits the foundations of my life in Christ. It is not poetry... it is a man, a gleaner, a traveler stopping long enough to receiving the food from the Lord, where the tables were set for him along the way. Such is my witness to our faith. I am a simple pilgrim, a stranger. ( "I am a pilgrim and a stranger traveling through this wearisome land..."



From Luke 18:14 "For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
 
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Artfuldodger

Senior Member
“'My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours.”

“This brother of yours has been found.”
 

Israel

BANNED
“'My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours.”

“This brother of yours has been found.”

Amen!
 

Israel

BANNED
You are the ones who have stood by Me in My trials. And I bestow on you a kingdom, just as My Father has bestowed on Me,…


I don't think the "good" son had to explain to the prodigal, once he was home..."you know, Dad really missed you...he would look for you every day" I might stretch it further..."sometimes I'd hear him wake up in his room, calling your name from his sleep...and then weeping"

How much we learn...as prodigals, though! The rank paltriness...of things. (of which we learn even the good son...envied.)

Do any of us want to be prodigal? I would think not. Yet, is he not so easily understood? Who has trouble identifying with him?

Do any of us want the dour attitude of the other son? Yet, again...is it not so easily understood?

But the father...now there's a mystery to us. How does he love both...so very very well? One who plainly just wanted his stuff...to go his "own way", and got it, and learned all he seemed to need to about stuff...and the other, though staying, thinking his father a withholder, a sort of stingy master...and yet...finds out he has also been all wrong...about the true nature of his father...and therefore, their relationship.

How can the Father live like this, in love...with both? I look into Jesus and begin to see this thing I call love...and he calls love, and find out...only one of us is wrong. And it's OK. It's OK to be wrong, in order to see...who is right.
 

Old Crusty

Senior Member
Back to the Nashville Statement. My problem with it is not so much what it contains but more so what it leaves out. Why highlight only LGBTQ issues? Most of the Church lost the moral high ground when it decided to turn a blind eye to fornication and adultery many years ago.
 

centerpin fan

Senior Member
Back to the Nashville Statement. My problem with it is not so much what it contains but more so what it leaves out. Why highlight only LGBTQ issues?

Because there is a large and vocal movement to "affirm" homosexuality as acceptable behavior for Christians. This movement wants churches to accept and celebrate gay marriage.
 

centerpin fan

Senior Member
Most of the Church lost the moral high ground when it decided to turn a blind eye to fornication and adultery many years ago.

I think you will find that the churches who "turn a blind eye" in those areas are the same ones promoting gay marriage.
 

Old Crusty

Senior Member
I think you will find that the churches who "turn a blind eye" in those areas are the same ones promoting gay marriage.

Certainly that is the case. But my experience is that many churches that are vocal in their condemnation of the LGBT lifestyle have accepted adultery thru allowing divorce and remarriage.
 

hawglips

Banned
This proclamation and warning was issued on this topic back in 1995.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1995/11/the-family-a-proclamation-to-the-world?lang=eng

We, the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.

In the premortal realm, spirit sons and daughters knew and worshiped God as their Eternal Father and accepted His plan by which His children could obtain a physical body and gain earthly experience to progress toward perfection and ultimately realize his or her divine destiny as an heir of eternal life. The divine plan of happiness enables family relationships to be perpetuated beyond the grave. Sacred ordinances and covenants available in holy temples make it possible for individuals to return to the presence of God and for families to be united eternally.

The first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God’s commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.

We declare the means by which mortal life is created to be divinely appointed. We affirm the sanctity of life and of its importance in God’s eternal plan.

Husband and wife have a solemn responsibility to love and care for each other and for their children. “Children are an heritage of the Lord” (Psalms 127:3). Parents have a sacred duty to rear their children in love and righteousness, to provide for their physical and spiritual needs, to teach them to love and serve one another, to observe the commandments of God and to be law-abiding citizens wherever they live. Husbands and wives—mothers and fathers—will be held accountable before God for the discharge of these obligations.

The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity. Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities. By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed.

We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.

We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.
 

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
Then we can agree that spiritual beings have gender? Such as Father and Son? But there was no female gendered spirits in Heaven before creation unless the LDS has it pegged correctly.
Hard to believe we didn't need a female until Eve and/or Mary.

What about Mary? What about us? Can we pre-exist as gendered spirits like God and his Son did?

I'm not sure scripture answers these questions that I ponder. Maybe Joseph Smith and the early Catholic leaders pondered these same question pertaining to the the Father, the Son, and Mother Mary as well.

In closing, it's hard to dismiss gender from Christianity. Even before creation.
 

Spineyman

Senior Member
Then we can agree that spiritual beings have gender? Such as Father and Son? But there was no female gendered spirits in Heaven before creation unless the LDS has it pegged correctly.
Hard to believe we didn't need a female until Eve and/or Mary.

What about Mary? What about us? Can we pre-exist as gendered spirits like God and his Son did?

I'm not sure scripture answers these questions that I ponder. Maybe Joseph Smith and the early Catholic leaders pondered these same question pertaining to the the Father, the Son, and Mother Mary as well.

In closing, it's hard to dismiss gender from Christianity. Even before creation.
I'm not sure you are looking to scripture ( written Word ) or Jesus ( living Word ) to answer your questions you have.
 

SemperFiDawg

Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
Back to the Nashville Statement. My problem with it is not so much what it contains but more so what it leaves out. Why highlight only LGBTQ issues? Most of the Church lost the moral high ground when it decided to turn a blind eye to fornication and adultery many years ago.

Maybe. Maybe not, but I don't seem to recall any fornicators, adulterers, or churches for that matter, taking the stand that fornication and adultery aren't sins.
 

hummerpoo

Gone but not forgotten
Back to the Nashville Statement. My problem with it is not so much what it contains but more so what it leaves out. Why highlight only LGBTQ issues? Most of the Church lost the moral high ground when it decided to turn a blind eye to fornication and adultery many years ago.

https://cbmw.org/nashville-statement

Article 2
WE AFFIRM that God’s revealed will for all people is chastity outside of marriage and fidelity within marriage.

WE DENY that any affections, desires, or commitments ever justify sexual intercourse before or outside marriage; nor do they justify any form of sexual immorality.


Article 9
WE AFFIRM that sin distorts sexual desires by directing them away from the marriage covenant and toward sexual immorality— a distortion that includes both heterosexual and homosexual immorality.

WE DENY that an enduring pattern of desire for sexual immorality justifies sexually immoral behavior.
 
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