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Old 06-26-2012, 11:05 PM
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Default Jesus present in other Religions?

Do ya'll think the Jesus type character in other religions is Jesus? This would include Mithras, Horus, & Krishna. This was vaguely mentioned on another thread and made me think about it. Could this be the "other sheep/flock" mentioned by Jesus?
I haven't given it enough thought to have a real opinion yet.
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Old 06-26-2012, 11:08 PM
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Here is an example:
Dionysus was born of a virgin on December 25 and, as the Holy Child, was placed in a manger. He was a traveling teacher who performed miracles. He “rode in a triumphal procession on an - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -.” He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification. Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25. He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine. He was called “King of Kings” and “God of Gods.” He was considered the “Only Begotten Son,” Savior,” “Redeemer,” “Sin Bearer,” Anointed One,” and the “Alpha and Omega.” He was identified with the Ram or Lamb. His sacrificial title of “Dendrites” or “Young Man of the Tree” intimates he was hung on a tree or crucified.

From Native American's Religion:
*He was a white man with a beard
*He said He came from across the sea
*He would choose twelve "disciples"
*He spoke of His Father's Kingdom
*He wore a bright white garment with golden sandals
*He made references to the future
*He had control over the wind and all elements
*He had the ability to heal wounds
*His sign was the cross
*He taught love and peace
*He taught that good deeds were important
*He referred them to the Dawn Star

How would you account the similarities if not from divine intervention? These stories were form around the world and from different eras.
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Old 06-27-2012, 07:20 AM
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When I think of Jesus possibly present with peoples before the period that gentiles identify with, I don't think of similarities of what was accomplished by the cross as gentiles know it. I don't look for devine saviour types. I look more to the Gospel of the Kingdom and what it seeks to accomplish and when the law was fulfilled, even in part, by the lives peoples in the past. For example, I find the case of Ashoka the Indian Emperor's life and times very interesting in this regard.

I don't look to human figures of Jesus, I look for the influences of Jesus--as we claim Jesus had with David for example, or understood by Isaiah another example or in judgement another example as when They walked up to Lot and "command Lot to gather his family and leave". I look to when the lives of peoples were in part orgreatly in accord with what we know as the Holy Spirit and/or the will of God.

Jesus with David and David's people was not the Jesus we know...simply because we are not David's---we are from gentiles and their pagan beliefs. Yet we can say and mean that Jesus was intimate in David's heart as it is with our own. David's kingdom was lively for his Lord, as ours is--both inwardly and outwardly and this is what I look for.

Now I might be totally out to lunch on this.....so take my take with a few grains of --salt. But seriously looking for saviour type figures in human history, other than perhaps a few rare exceptions, I think will mislead more than not.
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Last edited by gordon 2; 06-27-2012 at 07:41 AM.
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Old 06-27-2012, 07:36 AM
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Most Christians are not aware of this sort of thing. The Atheist crowd has been saying this for awhile. I suspect that there could have been similarities, but that the bulk was reverse engineered. I have a book where the writer takes many of the bible stories and tries to show that they got the idea elsewhere. The flood story was not mentioned LOL, but if one tries hard enough, he could show some, yet the dating is so critical, as to who drew from who. Such as 1 Enoch. Scholars thought for years that since so much of Matthew was in Enoch, that Enoch had to be written after Matthew. Yet, with the finding of the Dead Sea Scrolls, we now know it was the other way aroud. That Matthew was refering to ideas from 1 Enoch. Yet we also know that the later portion of Enoch is spurious, a later addition. When it was added, we don't know, before or after Matthew. So, I guess my point is that we may eventually find out some of the corruptions of our own writings as well as some of the secular writings
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Old 06-27-2012, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artfuldodger View Post
Here is an example:
Dionysus was born of a virgin on December 25 and, as the Holy Child, was placed in a manger. He was a traveling teacher who performed miracles. He “rode in a triumphal procession on an - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -.” He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification. Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25. He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine. He was called “King of Kings” and “God of Gods.” He was considered the “Only Begotten Son,” Savior,” “Redeemer,” “Sin Bearer,” Anointed One,” and the “Alpha and Omega.” He was identified with the Ram or Lamb. His sacrificial title of “Dendrites” or “Young Man of the Tree” intimates he was hung on a tree or crucified.

From Native American's Religion:
*He was a white man with a beard
*He said He came from across the sea
*He would choose twelve "disciples"
*He spoke of His Father's Kingdom
*He wore a bright white garment with golden sandals
*He made references to the future
*He had control over the wind and all elements
*He had the ability to heal wounds
*His sign was the cross
*He taught love and peace
*He taught that good deeds were important
*He referred them to the Dawn Star

How would you account the similarities if not from divine intervention? These stories were form around the world and from different eras.
If you care to search, the "jesus story" was told long before Jesus. Throughout history and pre-dating the writings of the NT there were many religions that told the same stories about god-men. Their births, deaths, miracles, battles with evil, actions and words and are so eerily similar that there is no doubt they have been handed down form culture to culture and changed just a bit to suit the new story tellers tastes.
Here are some similarities:

1. His mother was a virgin woman: Jesus, Attis, Buddha, Dionysus, Krishna, Mithra, Zoroaster, Horus(?) (Horus added OSB)

2. He was born on December 25: Jesus, Attis, Buddha, Dionysus, Horus, Krishna, Mithra

3. His earthly (adopted) father was a carpenter: Jesus, Krishna

4. His birth was signaled by a heavenly star: Jesus, Buddha, Horus, Krishna

5. At his birth, shepherds presented him with gifts: Jesus, Buddha, Horus, Krishna, Mithra

6. He was born in a manger or a cave: Jesus, Dionysus, Mithra

7. As a baby, he is declared a king. Wise men present him with gifts of gold: Jesus, Buddha, Krishna

8. Angels or other good divine spirits sang songs or danced at his birth: Jesus, Buddha, Krishna

9. He was threatened by a king or tyrant who tried to kill him as an infant: Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, Moses

10. He was of royal lineage: Jesus, Buddha, Horus

11. He taught at the temple as a child and astounded all who heard him with his wisdom: Jesus, Buddha, Horus, Zoroaster

12. He was baptized at a river: Jesus, Buddha, Horus, Zoroaster

13. His hapless baptizer is later decapitated: Jesus, Horus

14. He was tempted in the wilderness by the devil: Jesus, Zoroaster

15. He was a traveling teacher of great wisdom: Jesus, Buddha, Dionysus, Mithra

16. His ministry preached a message of charity, peace and love. He lived in poverty and loved the poor: Jesus, Krishna

17. He taught of heaven and - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -, revealed mysteries, resurrection, judgment, salvation and the apocalypse: Jesus, Zoroaster

18. He gave a famous sermon on a mountain: Jesus, Horus

19. He had 12 disciples: Jesus, Horus, Mithra

20. He gave his disciples the power to work miracles: Jesus, Krishna

21. He was transfigured in front of his disciples, sometimes described as shining as the sun: Jesus, Buddha, Horus, Krishna

22. He healed the sick and the injured: Jesus, Buddha, Horus, Krishna, Mithra, Serapis, Zoroaster

23. He cast out demons: Jesus, Horus, Zoroaster

24. He fed hundreds or thousands with magically generated food: Jesus, Buddha

25. He walked on water: Jesus, Buddha, Horus

26. He brought back the dead: Jesus, Horus

27. He turned water into wine: Jesus, Dionysus

28. His followers were admonished to take vows of poverty and renounce worldly desires: Jesus, Buddha

29. He was called such exalted titles as "Lord", "Master", "Light of the World", "Holy One", "Redeemer", "The Way", "The Truth", etc.: Jesus, Buddha, Dionysus, Horus, Krishna, Mithra

30. He is called "Logos" or "The Word": Jesus, Horus, Krishna, Mithra, Prometheus, Zoroaster

31. He was called "the anointed one" (how "Christ" translates): Jesus, Dionysus, Horus

32. He was known to his followers as a Shepherd of Humanity: Jesus, Buddha, Horus, Mithra, Serapis

33. He was known as a fisher, associated with the fish: Jesus, Horus

34. He's identified with the ram or lamb: Jesus, Dionysus, Horus, Mithra

35. He's identified with the lion: Jesus, Horus, Krishna, Mithra

36. He came not to destroy but to fulfill the law: Jesus, Buddha, Horus

37. He rode in a triumphal procession on a donkey: Jesus, Dionysus

38. He condemned the clergy for their ambition and hypocrisy. He would later fall victim to their scheming: Jesus, Krishna

39. He crushed a serpent's head: Jesus, Buddha, Krishna

40. Declared the savior of humanity, slain for our salvation: Jesus, Attis, Krishna, Mithra

41. He sometimes is known by a heart symbol: Jesus, Krishna

42. His body and/or blood is consumed through bread/wine in a symbolic ritual: Jesus, Attis, Dionysus, Mithra, Zoroaster

43. He had a sacred cup or grail: Jesus, Zoroaster

44. He died while hung from a cross or a tree: Jesus, Attis, Buddha, Dionysus, Horus, Krishna

45. His good friend, a fisherman named Peter/Petraeus, would desert him: Jesus, Prometheus

46. He was crucified between two thieves: Jesus, Horus, Krishna

47. He was around the age of 30 when he was crucified: Jesus, Krishna

48. At his death, the sun darkened or there were other grim supernatural signs: Jesus, Krishna

49. He went to the underworld for three days: Jesus, Attis, Mithra

50. He was resurrected: Jesus, Attis, Buddha, Dionysus, Horus, Krishna, Mithra

51. He was resurrected during the springtime, the date of which would become a day of celebration among his followers: Jesus, Attis, Dionysus, Mithra

52. His sacred day is Sunday: Jesus, Mithra

53. He is the second part of a divine trinity and/or considered to be one with his father god: Jesus, Attis, Krishna

54. He promises to return one day: Jesus, Buddha, Horus, Krishna, Zoroaster

55. When he comes again, he will ride on a white horse to do battle with the prince of evil: Jesus, Krishna
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Old 06-27-2012, 10:29 AM
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we can only go by scripture to truly know of Gods, and the incarnate Christs ,work before He was "made flesh".

this much i firmley believe...He (Christ) appeared unto men before this. simply because He had not been born of mary yet did not mean He could not appear bodily as angels did/do.

in the story of soddom an gomorah it says "and one Yehova(Lord) rain fire and brimstone FROM the Yehova(Lord) in heaven(gen.19:24). apparently the incarnate Christ appeared unto abraham and told him sarah was to concieve, soddom would be destroyed , and abraham even interseeded for lots life.then burned 2 cities to the ground.

Jacobs wrestling match , joshua's meeting with the "captain of the Lords hosts, ect. were all involving Christ imho.

as for earlier times if you study melchizedek . while i don't believe he was Christ as some say (the "without father and mother thingy only meant he was gentile and according to hebrew custom and law was considered to not have a family tree...anouther topic), this we do know. he was a "man". he was king and priest of ancient jerusalem(called salem, then jebus ). he served God and Christ's priesthood was patterened after his (hebrews).abraham gave him tithes.

is it possible God appeared unto others? sure!!! who taught melchizedek the ways of God??

but anything else is just speculation. as for the common mistake people have concerning "what happens to those who never knew Christ or before abrahams time frame" remember these will appear before the great white throne and be judged according to thier works (by a just and true God who would certainly take everything into account)
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Old 06-27-2012, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullethead View Post
If you care to search, the "jesus story" was told long before Jesus. Throughout history and pre-dating the writings of the NT there were many religions that told the same stories about god-men. Their births, deaths, miracles, battles with evil, actions and words and are so eerily similar that there is no doubt they have been handed down form culture to culture and changed just a bit to suit the new story tellers tastes.
Here are some similarities:

1. His mother was a virgin woman: Jesus, Attis, Buddha, Dionysus, Krishna, Mithra, Zoroaster, Horus(?) (Horus added OSB)



2. He was born on December 25: Jesus, Attis, Buddha, Dionysus, Horus, Krishna, Mithra

3. His earthly (adopted) father was a carpenter: Jesus, Krishna

4. His birth was signaled by a heavenly star: Jesus, Buddha, Horus, Krishna

5. At his birth, shepherds presented him with gifts: Jesus, Buddha, Horus, Krishna, Mithra

6. He was born in a manger or a cave: Jesus, Dionysus, Mithra

7. As a baby, he is declared a king. Wise men present him with gifts of gold: Jesus, Buddha, Krishna

8. Angels or other good divine spirits sang songs or danced at his birth: Jesus, Buddha, Krishna

9. He was threatened by a king or tyrant who tried to kill him as an infant: Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, Moses

10. He was of royal lineage: Jesus, Buddha, Horus

11. He taught at the temple as a child and astounded all who heard him with his wisdom: Jesus, Buddha, Horus, Zoroaster

12. He was baptized at a river: Jesus, Buddha, Horus, Zoroaster

13. His hapless baptizer is later decapitated: Jesus, Horus

14. He was tempted in the wilderness by the devil: Jesus, Zoroaster

15. He was a traveling teacher of great wisdom: Jesus, Buddha, Dionysus, Mithra

16. His ministry preached a message of charity, peace and love. He lived in poverty and loved the poor: Jesus, Krishna

17. He taught of heaven and - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -, revealed mysteries, resurrection, judgment, salvation and the apocalypse: Jesus, Zoroaster

18. He gave a famous sermon on a mountain: Jesus, Horus

19. He had 12 disciples: Jesus, Horus, Mithra

20. He gave his disciples the power to work miracles: Jesus, Krishna

21. He was transfigured in front of his disciples, sometimes described as shining as the sun: Jesus, Buddha, Horus, Krishna

22. He healed the sick and the injured: Jesus, Buddha, Horus, Krishna, Mithra, Serapis, Zoroaster

23. He cast out demons: Jesus, Horus, Zoroaster

24. He fed hundreds or thousands with magically generated food: Jesus, Buddha

25. He walked on water: Jesus, Buddha, Horus

26. He brought back the dead: Jesus, Horus

27. He turned water into wine: Jesus, Dionysus

28. His followers were admonished to take vows of poverty and renounce worldly desires: Jesus, Buddha

29. He was called such exalted titles as "Lord", "Master", "Light of the World", "Holy One", "Redeemer", "The Way", "The Truth", etc.: Jesus, Buddha, Dionysus, Horus, Krishna, Mithra

30. He is called "Logos" or "The Word": Jesus, Horus, Krishna, Mithra, Prometheus, Zoroaster

31. He was called "the anointed one" (how "Christ" translates): Jesus, Dionysus, Horus

32. He was known to his followers as a Shepherd of Humanity: Jesus, Buddha, Horus, Mithra, Serapis

33. He was known as a fisher, associated with the fish: Jesus, Horus

34. He's identified with the ram or lamb: Jesus, Dionysus, Horus, Mithra

35. He's identified with the lion: Jesus, Horus, Krishna, Mithra

36. He came not to destroy but to fulfill the law: Jesus, Buddha, Horus

37. He rode in a triumphal procession on a donkey: Jesus, Dionysus

38. He condemned the clergy for their ambition and hypocrisy. He would later fall victim to their scheming: Jesus, Krishna

39. He crushed a serpent's head: Jesus, Buddha, Krishna

40. Declared the savior of humanity, slain for our salvation: Jesus, Attis, Krishna, Mithra

41. He sometimes is known by a heart symbol: Jesus, Krishna

42. His body and/or blood is consumed through bread/wine in a symbolic ritual: Jesus, Attis, Dionysus, Mithra, Zoroaster

43. He had a sacred cup or grail: Jesus, Zoroaster

44. He died while hung from a cross or a tree: Jesus, Attis, Buddha, Dionysus, Horus, Krishna

45. His good friend, a fisherman named Peter/Petraeus, would desert him: Jesus, Prometheus

46. He was crucified between two thieves: Jesus, Horus, Krishna

47. He was around the age of 30 when he was crucified: Jesus, Krishna

48. At his death, the sun darkened or there were other grim supernatural signs: Jesus, Krishna

49. He went to the underworld for three days: Jesus, Attis, Mithra

50. He was resurrected: Jesus, Attis, Buddha, Dionysus, Horus, Krishna, Mithra

51. He was resurrected during the springtime, the date of which would become a day of celebration among his followers: Jesus, Attis, Dionysus, Mithra

52. His sacred day is Sunday: Jesus, Mithra

53. He is the second part of a divine trinity and/or considered to be one with his father god: Jesus, Attis, Krishna

54. He promises to return one day: Jesus, Buddha, Horus, Krishna, Zoroaster

55. When he comes again, he will ride on a white horse to do battle with the prince of evil: Jesus, Krishna
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Yes exactly. These do NOT qualify as Jesus being present in other religions or peoples according to my view.

Just as a mason can mix his morter in the same way, one in the days of Nebuchadnezzar and another in Tampa in 100yrs from now, it does not make that it is the same mason.

This is not what one should look for and to do so is to look with a carnal mind. What is to be looked for is that the lives of individuals and peoples are lived or attempted to be lived according to the Good News that we know for Jesus and the Holy Spirit with us*! *This is something christians possess without a deed(s) (paperwork)... so it is hard to pin down if your into debits and credits or really heavy into the buzz of string music.

If God has set aside a people and grafted another which we can objectively know as distinct for their values which are due to the works and ministry of Jesus, if we can say that Jesus was Lord and intimate to some in both groups as we understand this-- surely we can look for similar values in other peoples and in other times ---and in turn question if Jesus was in fact there. At least that's the way I'm going at it for now--and I'll be the first to admit if this leads to a spiritual nowhere--if it does...

From the christian paradigm ( from a believer's perspective) if Jesus in the Gospels made a point of sitting and socializing with sinners--I'm thinking, that is why He sat with David, or at least was known in David's heart and mind. He is perhaps what changed the Emperor Ashoka to change in mind about "all of life". Now since Adam and Eve are there other(many) candidate sinners... and not few indeed. Problem with most New World Christians and their progeny is that (lived) spiritual history just started when the Puritans crossed the drink.

But again, that countless peoples, cultures and nations have been courted by spiritually gifted individuals through-out time--this does not point to the're being Jesus by other names to other peoples. Jesus, the saviour of hebrew scripture and in christian life is a specific individual with specific attributes...unlike all others in the list, despite some striking similarities. His great achievement cannot be compared in similarity--namely for his gift of the Holy Spirit( in accord to the God of the Hebrews) to all who ask--no matter who you are, what you've been or where you come from.

Now if you don't believe in God ( the one the Hebrews are especially fond of), Jesus( the one christians are fond of) and the Holy Spirit that follows from these, much less as being intimate and positive in the lives of people...what I have just said does not make a bit of sense.
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Last edited by gordon 2; 06-27-2012 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 06-27-2012, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockman7 View Post
we can only go by scripture to truly know of Gods, and the incarnate Christs ,work before He was "made flesh".

this much i firmley believe...He (Christ) appeared unto men before this. simply because He had not been born of mary yet did not mean He could not appear bodily as angels did/do.

in the story of soddom an gomorah it says "and one Yehova(Lord) rain fire and brimstone FROM the Yehova(Lord) in heaven(gen.19:24). apparently the incarnate Christ appeared unto abraham and told him sarah was to concieve, soddom would be destroyed , and abraham even interseeded for lots life.then burned 2 cities to the ground.

Jacobs wrestling match , joshua's meeting with the "captain of the Lords hosts, ect. were all involving Christ imho.

as for earlier times if you study melchizedek . while i don't believe he was Christ as some say (the "without father and mother thingy only meant he was gentile and according to hebrew custom and law was considered to not have a family tree...anouther topic), this we do know. he was a "man". he was king and priest of ancient jerusalem(called salem, then jebus ). he served God and Christ's priesthood was patterened after his (hebrews).abraham gave him tithes.

is it possible God appeared unto others? sure!!! who taught melchizedek the ways of God??

but anything else is just speculation. as for the common mistake people have concerning "what happens to those who never knew Christ or before abrahams time frame" remember these will appear before the great white throne and be judged according to thier works (by a just and true God who would certainly take everything into account)
Did you ever consider that Moses was an Egyptian? Ever consider the ebb and flow history from many Gods to one God in Egyptian spirituality? Ever consider Moses walking away from what he percieved were severe differences in what God was and what was not right spiritually and socially? Ever consider the intercourse between India and Egypt and all the inbetweens before Moses?

If we go back from Moses...we go everywhere where man was civilized enough to keep some sort of records even oral ones. For example some of the ancient moral teachings in native american history don't take a back seat to anyone else's. The native people that live next to me say they were always here and science says 10,000 yrs ago ( last ice age).

Simply, if the Hebrew prophets could look ahead, why can't christians look back and find a tree in the past, that was ever there, and yet they were not yet grafted to? Unless they don't really believe they were grafted to anything at all? God being the God of the living, I suggest...you know....
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Last edited by gordon 2; 06-27-2012 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 06-27-2012, 12:33 PM
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i can only go by what i can "verify" based on word. but i do "know" He's been God to everyone and thats all i can honestly say. the rest He'll have to fill me in on when i can ask Him face to face(or sooner if He so chooses).

sheesh....i'm still workin on "love yer neighbor as yourself"
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Old 06-27-2012, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by rockman7 View Post
i can only go by what i can "verify" based on word. but i do "know" He's been God to everyone and thats all i can honestly say. the rest He'll have to fill me in on when i can ask Him face to face(or sooner if He so chooses).

sheesh....i'm still workin on "love yer neighbor as yourself"
Yea I'm still working on it myself....

Peace bros.
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:30 PM
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Yes exactly. These do NOT qualify as Jesus being present in other religions or peoples according to my view.
Agreed. I think they are examples of other Religions showing up in the story of Jesus.
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Old 06-28-2012, 12:35 AM
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at risk of bein called a fruit loop(but then ....like thats ever stopped me). nothing sez we're the only "non angelic" being in the universe either. but in our self indulgent mindset we can't see past that either.

personally i can see where scripture hints otherwise .....that all of Gods creations are watching this showdown on this tiny planet and are learning as the angels are.
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Old 06-28-2012, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by rockman7 View Post
at risk of bein called a fruit loop(but then ....like thats ever stopped me). nothing sez we're the only "non angelic" being in the universe either. but in our self indulgent mindset we can't see past that either.

personally i can see where scripture hints otherwise .....that all of Gods creations are watching this showdown on this tiny planet and are learning as the angels are.
That's as valid an interpretation of scripture as any.
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Old 06-28-2012, 11:43 PM
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The following is some Native American evidence;


*He was a white man with a beard
*He said He came from across the sea
*He would choose twelve "disciples"
*He spoke of His Father's Kingdom
*He wore a bright white garment with golden sandals
*He made references to the future
*He had control over the wind and all elements
*He had the ability to heal wounds
*His sign was the cross
*He taught love and peace
*He taught that good deeds were important
*He referred them to the Dawn Star
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Old 06-29-2012, 12:01 AM
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In another Scripture, the word for them was "Nephylim," or "the fallen." This is what they were called in the early Jewish tradition. The word in Ashurit or the Ancient Aramaic connotes "aboriginal man." From the modern scientific perspective, the aborigines could be called primates, humanoids or the Neanderthal man. They were essentially animal in nature; however, they had the capacity to think like the homo sapiens that followed them, in the age that God ejected Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden, or Paradise.

The above article and other articles make me think about this. We all came from Noah. We are all of God's people. Somehow we are all united with the ability to believe. I still believe Jesus is the only way to Heaven, and we have the ability to not believe.
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:13 AM
bullethead bullethead is offline
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Dionysus was the GREEK God of Wine and Festivities.

Look up the Epic of Gilgamesh. It predates the "Noah" story by about a thousand years.
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Old 06-30-2012, 01:02 AM
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Dionysus was the GREEK God of Wine and Festivities.

Look up the Epic of Gilgamesh. It predates the "Noah" story by about a thousand years.
Maybe the events of the Garden of Eden and the Ark story in all the various religions are one in the same. The dates/times don't jive because there was no standard set for what was a year, month, day, etc.
It took the calendar makers years to settle the VHS/Beta max wars so to speak.
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Old 06-30-2012, 12:39 PM
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Maybe the events of the Garden of Eden and the Ark story in all the various religions are one in the same. The dates/times don't jive because there was no standard set for what was a year, month, day, etc.
It took the calendar makers years to settle the VHS/Beta max wars so to speak.
Maybe

OR

Maybe they were stories and folklore handed down for thousands of years. Maybe the original story was based on an event such as a flood but it was very localized. Then (as with most stories) as it was passed along from generation to generation and from culture to culture the story changed just a bit each time to suit the tellers taste. Finally a thousand years later someone puts it down as an event that their God caused, only it was worldwide and the spin was thrown on to suit the story they wanted told to keep the masses in check.
I have no doubt that there is some truth to a story that told about a flood.
I have no doubt that after a thousand years the story was added to and embellished upon.
I have no doubt that by the time "God" inspired someone to write it down it was old news and had been told for centuries in different forms by different people and ALL the different versions held the authors/tellers spin.
I am confident of all these things because there is evidence of those things happening throughout history.
It is no secret that any religion that believes their God created everything includes a story about how it all happened. Figuring out which one, all, or none is right is the real adventure.
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Old 08-11-2012, 02:04 AM
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If you care to search, the "jesus story" was told long before Jesus. Throughout history and pre-dating the writings of the NT there were many religions that told the same stories about god-men. Their births, deaths, miracles, battles with evil, actions and words and are so eerily similar that there is no doubt they have been handed down form culture to culture and changed just a bit to suit the new story tellers tastes.
Here are some similarities:

1. His mother was a virgin woman: Jesus, Attis, Buddha, Dionysus, Krishna, Mithra, Zoroaster, Horus(?) (Horus added OSB)

2. He was born on December 25: Jesus, Attis, Buddha, Dionysus, Horus, Krishna, Mithra

3. His earthly (adopted) father was a carpenter: Jesus, Krishna

4. His birth was signaled by a heavenly star: Jesus, Buddha, Horus, Krishna

5. At his birth, shepherds presented him with gifts: Jesus, Buddha, Horus, Krishna, Mithra

6. He was born in a manger or a cave: Jesus, Dionysus, Mithra

7. As a baby, he is declared a king. Wise men present him with gifts of gold: Jesus, Buddha, Krishna

8. Angels or other good divine spirits sang songs or danced at his birth: Jesus, Buddha, Krishna

9. He was threatened by a king or tyrant who tried to kill him as an infant: Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, Moses

10. He was of royal lineage: Jesus, Buddha, Horus

11. He taught at the temple as a child and astounded all who heard him with his wisdom: Jesus, Buddha, Horus, Zoroaster

12. He was baptized at a river: Jesus, Buddha, Horus, Zoroaster

13. His hapless baptizer is later decapitated: Jesus, Horus

14. He was tempted in the wilderness by the devil: Jesus, Zoroaster

15. He was a traveling teacher of great wisdom: Jesus, Buddha, Dionysus, Mithra

16. His ministry preached a message of charity, peace and love. He lived in poverty and loved the poor: Jesus, Krishna

17. He taught of heaven and - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -, revealed mysteries, resurrection, judgment, salvation and the apocalypse: Jesus, Zoroaster

18. He gave a famous sermon on a mountain: Jesus, Horus

19. He had 12 disciples: Jesus, Horus, Mithra

20. He gave his disciples the power to work miracles: Jesus, Krishna

21. He was transfigured in front of his disciples, sometimes described as shining as the sun: Jesus, Buddha, Horus, Krishna

22. He healed the sick and the injured: Jesus, Buddha, Horus, Krishna, Mithra, Serapis, Zoroaster

23. He cast out demons: Jesus, Horus, Zoroaster

24. He fed hundreds or thousands with magically generated food: Jesus, Buddha

25. He walked on water: Jesus, Buddha, Horus

26. He brought back the dead: Jesus, Horus

27. He turned water into wine: Jesus, Dionysus

28. His followers were admonished to take vows of poverty and renounce worldly desires: Jesus, Buddha

29. He was called such exalted titles as "Lord", "Master", "Light of the World", "Holy One", "Redeemer", "The Way", "The Truth", etc.: Jesus, Buddha, Dionysus, Horus, Krishna, Mithra

30. He is called "Logos" or "The Word": Jesus, Horus, Krishna, Mithra, Prometheus, Zoroaster

31. He was called "the anointed one" (how "Christ" translates): Jesus, Dionysus, Horus

32. He was known to his followers as a Shepherd of Humanity: Jesus, Buddha, Horus, Mithra, Serapis

33. He was known as a fisher, associated with the fish: Jesus, Horus

34. He's identified with the ram or lamb: Jesus, Dionysus, Horus, Mithra

35. He's identified with the lion: Jesus, Horus, Krishna, Mithra

36. He came not to destroy but to fulfill the law: Jesus, Buddha, Horus

37. He rode in a triumphal procession on a donkey: Jesus, Dionysus

38. He condemned the clergy for their ambition and hypocrisy. He would later fall victim to their scheming: Jesus, Krishna

39. He crushed a serpent's head: Jesus, Buddha, Krishna

40. Declared the savior of humanity, slain for our salvation: Jesus, Attis, Krishna, Mithra

41. He sometimes is known by a heart symbol: Jesus, Krishna

42. His body and/or blood is consumed through bread/wine in a symbolic ritual: Jesus, Attis, Dionysus, Mithra, Zoroaster

43. He had a sacred cup or grail: Jesus, Zoroaster

44. He died while hung from a cross or a tree: Jesus, Attis, Buddha, Dionysus, Horus, Krishna

45. His good friend, a fisherman named Peter/Petraeus, would desert him: Jesus, Prometheus

46. He was crucified between two thieves: Jesus, Horus, Krishna

47. He was around the age of 30 when he was crucified: Jesus, Krishna

48. At his death, the sun darkened or there were other grim supernatural signs: Jesus, Krishna

49. He went to the underworld for three days: Jesus, Attis, Mithra

50. He was resurrected: Jesus, Attis, Buddha, Dionysus, Horus, Krishna, Mithra

51. He was resurrected during the springtime, the date of which would become a day of celebration among his followers: Jesus, Attis, Dionysus, Mithra

52. His sacred day is Sunday: Jesus, Mithra

53. He is the second part of a divine trinity and/or considered to be one with his father god: Jesus, Attis, Krishna

54. He promises to return one day: Jesus, Buddha, Horus, Krishna, Zoroaster

55. When he comes again, he will ride on a white horse to do battle with the prince of evil: Jesus, Krishna
And the only constant in all these examples is ...

Yep, Jesus.
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  #20  
Old 08-12-2012, 04:08 PM
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And the only constant in all these examples is ...

Yep, Jesus.
Well, yeah. That was the whole point, finding similarities to the "Jesus story".

RW
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  #21  
Old 05-29-2013, 11:52 AM
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Jesus is in the Muslim religion...
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:34 PM
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Absoloutly! 100% how else could 99% of the worlds religions be based on father/son or mother/daughter diety`s. only those Christians with scales over there eyes who refuse to accept the bible has mistakes will argue. ART I address this the who whom thread as well and your thread about women. One must be open minded in order to learn. and accept god made us all which allowed for development of many diffrent religions but are basicly the same.
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:42 PM
piratebob64 piratebob64 is offline
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Did you ever consider that Moses was an Egyptian? Ever consider the ebb and flow history from many Gods to one God in Egyptian spirituality? Ever consider Moses walking away from what he percieved were severe differences in what God was and what was not right spiritually and socially? Ever consider the intercourse between India and Egypt and all the inbetweens before Moses?

If we go back from Moses...we go everywhere where man was civilized enough to keep some sort of records even oral ones. For example some of the ancient moral teachings in native american history don't take a back seat to anyone else's. The native people that live next to me say they were always here and science says 10,000 yrs ago ( last ice age).

Simply, if the Hebrew prophets could look ahead, why can't christians look back and find a tree in the past, that was ever there, and yet they were not yet grafted to? Unless they don't really believe they were grafted to anything at all? God being the God of the living, I suggest...you know....
What you say has the potential to prove the bible that christians belive in fight over and raise their kids by and liv by may be dare I say it Wrong! There can be no others if there were it would be written in the bible is what i expect to hear now!
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