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  #51  
Old 01-15-2013, 05:23 PM
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My belief or not in God is not part of this equation though, just that I have a belief in some principle. Is that a religion?
I don't think it technically fits the definition of a religion. Sounds more like a personal philosophy to me.

Whatever floats your boat.
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  #52  
Old 01-16-2013, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by centerpin fan View Post
I don't think it technically fits the definition of a religion. Sounds more like a personal philosophy to me.

Whatever floats your boat.
My boat displaces an amount of water of equal mass, and the water exerts a bouyancy onto my boat equal to the mass of the water displaced.

philosophically that is.
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  #53  
Old 01-16-2013, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by centerpin fan View Post
There's no contradiction here. Even in the passage you cite, it says, "All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law ... " (Rom 2:12.) Compare that with Rom 3:23 -- "ALL have sinned." Some have sinned under the law and others have sinned apart from it.
That's a pretty small part of the other scripture.
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  #54  
Old 01-16-2013, 02:12 PM
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That's a pretty small part of the other scripture.
The reality of sin and the need for repentance runs through the entire Bible.
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  #55  
Old 01-16-2013, 03:47 PM
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The reality of sin and the need for repentance runs through the entire Bible.
Yup. And then there's the bit about the folks who have never heard the Word of God.
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  #56  
Old 01-16-2013, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by shane256 View Post
Yup. And then there's the bit about the folks who have never heard the Word of God.
Just curious as I've never read the verses about people not hearing the Gospel going to a better place but not Heaven. I have read verses about Christians that go on sinning being worse than to have never become a Christian.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”
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  #57  
Old 01-16-2013, 04:19 PM
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conversely. If one person lives a far more virtuous life than a Christian, but doesn't declare a faith, are they doomed? Fair question
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  #58  
Old 01-16-2013, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Artfuldodger View Post
Just curious as I've never read the verses about people not hearing the Gospel going to a better place but not Heaven. I have read verses about Christians that go on sinning being worse than to have never become a Christian.
Very quick search (I haven't read this article before, but the first paragraph or so seems like it is addressing it): http://carm.org/what-happens-those-w...r-heard-gospel
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  #59  
Old 01-16-2013, 04:25 PM
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Yup. And then there's the bit about the folks who have never heard the Word of God.
You're reading way too much into whatever verse you're referring to.
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  #60  
Old 01-16-2013, 04:58 PM
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You're reading way too much into whatever verse you're referring to.
Not really. I had the discussion with my grandmother once... she's the one that clued me into it to start with. She firmly believed that those who had never heard the Gospel before went to "a good place, but not Heaven". This was when I asked her what happened to all the people like deep in the rain forests who never had even seen a missionary... did they just go to Hades... didn't seem very fair... their only "crime" was to be born to parents in a remote part of the world. She was Southern Baptist, btw.
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  #61  
Old 01-16-2013, 05:21 PM
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Not really. I had the discussion with my grandmother once... she's the one that clued me into it to start with. She firmly believed that those who had never heard the Gospel before went to "a good place, but not Heaven". This was when I asked her what happened to all the people like deep in the rain forests who never had even seen a missionary... did they just go to Hades... didn't seem very fair... their only "crime" was to be born to parents in a remote part of the world. She was Southern Baptist, btw.
Maybe Grandma was reading too much into it.
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  #62  
Old 01-16-2013, 05:28 PM
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Maybe Grandma was reading too much into it.
I've seen the argument in other places since. It may not be *your* opinion, but there are folks of that opinion and they back it up with Romans.
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  #63  
Old 01-16-2013, 05:46 PM
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I've seen the argument in other places since. It may not be *your* opinion, but there are folks of that opinion and they back it up with Romans.
Whatever floats your boat. For this forum, that's sufficient.
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  #64  
Old 01-16-2013, 06:53 PM
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I've seen the argument in other places since. It may not be *your* opinion, but there are folks of that opinion and they back it up with Romans.
I've heard that opinion before too. I've also heard that God has already delivered his message to the ones around the world that he wants to save. This was from someone of the Elect persuasion.
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  #65  
Old 01-16-2013, 10:38 PM
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Here is the United Church of God's belief. They believe all those people who never heard of God will get there Salvation or chance at Salvation at the second resurrection.
From their site;
God "desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Timothy 2:4)
But considering the masses of humanity who have never even heard the name of Christ, many Christians have wondered if or how they would have a chance for salvation. We believe the Bible teaches that all will have a real chance through the often neglected doctrine of "resurrection of the dead" and God's judgment (Hebrews 6:2)

http://www.ucg.org/bible-faq/will-ev...n-judgment-day
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  #66  
Old 01-17-2013, 04:31 PM
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Maybe Grandma was reading too much into it.
How do you know which ones you take at face value and which ones require being read in to further?
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  #67  
Old 01-17-2013, 04:56 PM
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How do you know which ones you take at face value and which ones require being read in to further?
You have to look at the context, both the immediate context and the context of the entire body of scripture. In addition, you should consider what the church has always taught about the passage.
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  #68  
Old 01-17-2013, 06:07 PM
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You have to look at the context, both the immediate context and the context of the entire body of scripture. In addition, you should consider what the church has always taught about the passage.
Because there is only one church/denomination of the Christian religion? There are many denominations simply because of different interpretations of scripture...
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:59 PM
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Because there is only one church/denomination of the Christian religion? There are many denominations simply because of different interpretations of scripture...
There are many denominations because people tend to ignore two things.

This:

"... no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." 2 Peter 1:20

... and this:

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Originally Posted by centerpin fan View Post
... what the church has always taught about the passage.
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  #70  
Old 01-21-2013, 04:15 PM
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"... no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." 2 Peter 1:20
Then it all must be taken literally and then there are all kinds of... things... that must be taken into account. For example, how did two of every species of animal fit onto the ark along with their food, etc? It'd have to be like the Tardis.
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  #71  
Old 01-21-2013, 06:09 PM
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Then it all must be taken literally and then there are all kinds of... things... that must be taken into account.
I disagree, but this is not the best forum for that discussion. Start a new thread in the AAA forum if you like.
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  #72  
Old 01-29-2013, 08:38 PM
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Because there is only one church/denomination of the Christian religion? There are many denominations simply because of different interpretations of scripture...
But the interpretation of each denomination isn't what salvation is about. There's only one thing that is required of us, that we believe John 3:16. ALL Christians will agree on that verse. We don't have to interpret anything else correctly, that is not a requirement for salvation. Scriptures tells us that we will not all agree on the entire bible, because that's not what saves us. It's basically John 3:16 that will save us.

I may be convicted on certain things that Centerpin may not be convicted of, that will not hinder either of our salvation, because we disagree on some things. I'd say at least 90% of the Bible isn't agreed upon....it's knowing who Jesus is and what He did on the cross and our repentence that saves us.


My ex thinks he's a pretty good guy....he shares his 'highs' with other people...shares his beer, shares his pot, will give someone the shirt off his back, will give someone a place to live, let someone drive his car, feed someone, give people money....yeah he's a nice, pretty good guy, but he has no relationship with Christ, so Christ will tell him, I do not know you, because my ex doesn't believe that Christ is who he says He is. It's not by works that we are saved, it's by faith in Christ that saves us. It depends on if you want to know Christ or not as to whether you want to end up with the gift of Christ or go somewhere else...wherever that may be.
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  #73  
Old 01-29-2013, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Artfuldodger View Post
I've heard that opinion before too. I've also heard that God has already delivered his message to the ones around the world that he wants to save. This was from someone of the Elect persuasion.
Yeah, well.....I don't feel like I'm wasting my time, do you? Preach the gospel so that ALL may be saved...

Preach on my bro!!
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