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  #51  
Old 10-31-2017, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Artfuldodger View Post
He didn't miss the point, he just doesn't agree with it. He isn't alienating people because people are already divided on the "point" of the OP.
All these trolling lines out and no bites in a while? Here, try one of these.
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  #52  
Old 10-31-2017, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Artfuldodger View Post
He didn't miss the point, he just doesn't agree with it. He isn't alienating people because people are already divided on the "point" of the OP.
At least someone gets it.

In retrospect of the Obama years bringing to light the massive corruption of the power elites in government there was a struggle to maintain a conservative presence in the office of the POTUS. The URWCC's wouldn't dare support a "Mormon" because he wasn't a "real Christian", they wouldn't dare support a man that wouldn't come out and declare abortion immoral and illegal.

I vehemently argued against this line of applying moral self righteousness to politics and in the end it allowed Obama to be elected and nearly cost us our Sovereignty as a Nation. Now the very same people, who don't know the actual man Trump is in person, are the same URWCC's that caused the issues 11 years ago. Creating a divide in Congress, instead of supporting a man that want's to return this Country to a sustainable bearing.

You don't have to like the candidate, but you do have to have the Faith to know that God will use the candidate best suited to our Constitutional foundings to right this ship. To fail to do so is to bring about question of your self proclaimed Faith in God to begin with.

Throwing the political baby out with the Christian bath water achieves nothing and is actually more destructive to us in the end.
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  #53  
Old 10-31-2017, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Miguel Cervantes View Post
At least someone gets it.
Yes, but unfortunately it’s neither you, nor AutoTroll.

As for the rest of your post; off point, off topic, and wrong forum. Good Grief and Good Day.
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  #54  
Old 10-31-2017, 11:12 AM
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Yes, but unfortunately it’s neither you, nor AutoTroll.

As for the rest of your post; off point, off topic, and wrong forum. Good Grief and Good Day.
That's what I love about URWCC's. It's their way or the highway. At least consistency isn't one of your shortcomings.

Dig a little beneath the surface of my statements and apply them to the history of Israel and perhaps you might find some parallels as to where we are headed.

Then again, probably not in your case, but at the very least ask yourself; What good did the Pharisees do for their culture and belief system in the long run.
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  #55  
Old 10-31-2017, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Miguel Cervantes View Post
That's what I love about URWCC's. It's their way or the highway. At least consistency isn't one of your shortcomings.

Dig a little beneath the surface of my statements and apply them to the history of Israel and perhaps you might find some parallels as to where we are headed.

Then again, probably not in your case, but at the very least ask yourself; What good did the Pharisees do for their culture and belief system in the long run.
MC. You totally missed the point of the OP.......and you still haven’t grasped it. HINT: It has absolutely no political connotations, nor do I care to discuss politics with you, or anything else for that matter.
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  #56  
Old 10-31-2017, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by SemperFiDawg View Post
MC. You totally missed the point of the OP.......and you still haven’t grasped it. HINT: It has absolutely no political connotations, nor do I care to discuss politics with you, or anything else for that matter.
Then stop responding to my posts, duhhh.

At least those in your disdain are intelligent enough to grasp what I am saying.

Clue #1 -
http://cjonline.com/blog/lucinda/201...are-they-today
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  #57  
Old 10-31-2017, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by SemperFiDawg View Post
All these trolling lines out and no bites in a while? Here, try one of these.
If you drug one of those through the water around here, the fish would run out on the bank and climb trees.
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  #58  
Old 10-31-2017, 01:26 PM
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If you drug one of those through the water around here, the fish would run out on the bank and climb trees.
Lot of posters here have the same effect on any thread with intelligent conversation.
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  #59  
Old 10-31-2017, 02:08 PM
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I thought it was a very interesting and intelligent topic and conversation. I thought that since it was under the "other faiths" forum, the OP was looking for various beliefs instead of only the ones that agree with his.

I personally welcome all beliefs on threads that I start and/or take part in. Hey, I got it to 59! It was about to fizzle out.
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  #60  
Old 10-31-2017, 03:57 PM
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I'll admit I did ramble a bit on a couple of responses. One point I was looking at is the various beliefs concerning the Abrahamic Covenant as it concerns; He said that “in you all the nations will be blessed.”
Trolling for input? Sure.

Here is what Paul thought it was;

Galatians 3:8
What's more, the Scriptures looked forward to this time when God would declare the Gentiles to be righteous because of their faith. God proclaimed this good news to Abraham long ago when he said, "All nations will be blessed through you."

Last edited by Artfuldodger; 10-31-2017 at 04:07 PM.
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  #61  
Old 11-05-2017, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Artfuldodger View Post
I'll admit I did ramble a bit on a couple of responses. One point I was looking at is the various beliefs concerning the Abrahamic Covenant as it concerns; He said that “in you all the nations will be blessed.”
Trolling for input? Sure.

Here is what Paul thought it was;

Galatians 3:8
What's more, the Scriptures looked forward to this time when God would declare the Gentiles to be righteous because of their faith. God proclaimed this good news to Abraham long ago when he said, "All nations will be blessed through you."
Revelation 5:9
And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood, men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.

Revelation 7:9
After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands,
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  #62  
Old 11-07-2017, 08:53 PM
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Romans 11:28
Many of the people of Israel are now enemies of the Good News, and this benefits you Gentiles. Yet they are still the people he loves because he chose their ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

"God himself is the one who decided to make Christianity's "Seed" Jewish. Don't ask me why, I don't know. I've often wondered why he chose a nation? If it was eventually not going matter, why did he go that route to begin with?"

Romans 29-31
29For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable. 30Just as you who formerly disobeyed God have now received mercy through their disobedience, 31so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you.
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  #63  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Artfuldodger View Post
Romans 11:28
Many of the people of Israel are now enemies of the Good News, and this benefits you Gentiles. Yet they are still the people he loves because he chose their ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

"God himself is the one who decided to make Christianity's "Seed" Jewish. Don't ask me why, I don't know. I've often wondered why he chose a nation? If it was eventually not going matter, why did he go that route to begin with?"

Romans 29-31
29For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable. 30Just as you who formerly disobeyed God have now received mercy through their disobedience, 31so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you.
If in God's eyes there is no longer Jew nor Greek, how can we honestly say Jew's are still loved by God because of genealogy?
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  #64  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:44 AM
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Addressing the op. I think all race of man have the ability to invent and create great things. culture, parents, discipline, and exposure to learning with encouragement are all the limiting or supporting factors.
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  #65  
Old 11-08-2017, 10:12 AM
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If in God's eyes there is no longer Jew nor Greek, how can we honestly say Jew's are still loved by God because of genealogy?
huhhh.. Because God says so?

"They shall be My people, and l will be their God. And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put My fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from Me."-Jer 32:38, 40.
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  #66  
Old 11-08-2017, 10:20 AM
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Ezekiel 37:11-14
Then He said to me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel; behold, they say, 'Our bones are dried up and our hope has perished. We are completely cut off.' 12"Therefore prophesy and say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel. 13"Then you will know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves and caused you to come up out of your graves, My people. 14"I will put My Spirit within you and you will come to life, and I will place you on your own land. Then you will know that I, the LORD, have spoken and done it," declares the LORD.

Kinda lines up with Jeremiah 31:31–34 and Romans 11;

25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove godlessness from Jacob. 27And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.”…
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  #67  
Old 11-08-2017, 10:26 AM
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28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.

This concerns salvation by the grafting in to the Commonwealth of Israel. In that respect there is no longer Jew nor Gentile, male and female.
If this is used to show there is no longer Jew and Greek, then let's use it to show there is no longer male and female as well.
Do we still have male and female humans? The Bible says concerning salvation no but otherwise, Yes.

Just because those that were once strangers to the Commonwealth of Israel have been grafted in doesn't take away from the fact that we still have Jews and Gentiles, males and females.

If someone can explain away Romans 11 otherwise, I'd like to hear a logical explanation.
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  #68  
Old 11-08-2017, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by NE GA Pappy View Post
huhhh.. Because God says so?

"They shall be My people, and l will be their God. And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put My fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from Me."-Jer 32:38, 40.
They have been departed since they were no more. Their covenant is fulfilled.
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Last edited by hobbs27; 11-08-2017 at 02:43 PM.
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  #69  
Old 11-08-2017, 02:28 PM
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We enter into covenant by becoming children of God through the Spirit, not by genealogy.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
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  #70  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:05 PM
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We enter into covenant by becoming children of God through the Spirit, not by genealogy.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
You don't see any promises made to Israel in the Bible other than the Seed?

Ephesians 2:12
remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.

"What were these covenants(plural) of the promise?"

Romans 9:4
They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises.

"promises?"(plural)

Romans 11:28
As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs,

"Why a distinction?"

Maybe there was a promised Seed that was the main promise and there were other promises as well.
We could say that through Adam came the Seed and Noah as well.

What do you reckon was God's reason for choosing Israel? Why did God make Christianity's beginnings a national thing? Why did he elect a Remnant our of Israel and harden the rest? Keep in mine that the Remnant wasn't chosen by works but by grace and grace alone.

You seem to be saying that there is or never was a distinction. Was there ever a time when anything related to God was about genealogy?
Was genealogy only needed to bring the Seed into the world? In other words the only reason God used Israel was to provide a genealogical path for the Seed and a way for that chosen race to kill him?

If the Jews were hardened or "set up" for this plan or mission, wouldn't it stand to reason that maybe "all Israel will be saved?"

Last edited by Artfuldodger; 11-08-2017 at 10:00 PM.
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  #71  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:16 PM
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Romans 11:26
And so all Israel will be saved. As the Scriptures say, "The one who rescues will come from Jerusalem, and he will turn Israel away from ungodliness.

Romans 11 has to be about physical Israel and not the Church. So even if the Savior already came in 70AD, it means that God made a distinction to and for the nation of Israel.
Maybe there isn't a distinction any more but there was when Paul wrote Romans 11.

"Election of a Remnant out of Israel and hardening the others until the full number of Gentiles came in. Then all of Israel being saved."

Even if it has already happened it shows that God made promises to national Israel that he fulfilled. Election based on the Patriarchs. Salvation to the House of Jacob. God's covenant with them when he took away their sins.
Do not be ignorant of this mystery. Do not be conceited about this mystery.
God’s gifts and His call were irrevocable even if it's already happened. The distinction was there. Even when salvation was being granted without distinction.

Romans 11:31
so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you.…

Last edited by Artfuldodger; 11-08-2017 at 09:31 PM.
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  #72  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by hobbs27 View Post
We enter into covenant by becoming children of God through the Spirit, not by genealogy.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Genesis 22:17
indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies.

"Sounds like a promise to seeds."

Romans 15:8-10
For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God’s truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs, 9so that the Gentiles may glorify God for His mercy. As it is written: “Therefore I will praise You among the Gentiles; I will sing hymns to Your name.” 10Again, it says: “Rejoice, O Gentiles, with His people.”

Promises(plural) to the patriarchs. Rejoice Gentiles with "His" people.

So we have promises to seeds(plural) and we have the promise of the Seed(singular). Both types came by way of genealogy. Both types came through and to Abraham.
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  #73  
Old 11-09-2017, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Artfuldodger View Post
Genesis 22:17
indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies.

"Sounds like a promise to seeds."

Romans 15:8-10
For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God’s truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs, 9so that the Gentiles may glorify God for His mercy. As it is written: “Therefore I will praise You among the Gentiles; I will sing hymns to Your name.” 10Again, it says: “Rejoice, O Gentiles, with His people.”

Promises(plural) to the patriarchs. Rejoice Gentiles with "His" people.

So we have promises to seeds(plural) and we have the promise of the Seed(singular). Both types came by way of genealogy. Both types came through and to Abraham.

The seed is the heir of Abraham. The "seeds" are the Joint heirs of Christ.

Jesus was the first to receive the inheritance. Through faith the first century Christians were joint heirs of the promises made to the patriarchs.
The will had been probated, and the inheritance ( Kingdom and everlasting life) was finally being inherited.
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  #74  
Old 11-10-2017, 12:22 PM
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They have been departed since they were no more. Their covenant is fulfilled.
Notice the hard left turn to 70ad. And in the Other Faiths forum too. Must have gotten lonely upstairs, since most have pretty much given up posting up there due to this same nonsense.
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  #75  
Old 11-10-2017, 12:29 PM
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Notice the hard left turn to 70ad. And in the Other Faiths forum too. Must have gotten lonely upstairs, since most have pretty much given up posting up there due to this same nonsense.
I quit having any discussions for that reason.

I don't understand how something can be everlasting if there is an end to it.
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