Miguel Cervantes
Jedi Master
Did you ever know Epicurus?
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Texas church shooter was a militant atheist
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Did you ever know Epicurus?
atlashunter
Senior Member
What are you trying to say? I may have a few gray hairs but I'm not that old.
Miguel Cervantes
Jedi Master
What are you trying to say? I may have a few gray hairs but I'm not that old.
And yet you ascribe to assign credibility to hoards of books and documents drawn from his beliefs by people that never met him, but are only attracted to his philosophy.
This puts Christians and Atheist in the same boat, concerning their beliefs, and I don't see either one sinking anytime soon.
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
Didn't Epicurus have about 300 works, all written by himself?
Miguel Cervantes
Jedi Master
And now, the rest of the wiki paragraph.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurus
Google is a wonderful tool.
atlashunter
Senior Member
And yet you ascribe to assign credibility to hoards of books and documents drawn from his beliefs by people that never met him, but are only attracted to his philosophy.
This puts Christians and Atheist in the same boat, concerning their beliefs, and I don't see either one sinking anytime soon.
What matters is not the authenticity of the origin of the ideas but the ideas themselves. Not so with Christianity. If Epicurus could see the words attributed to him and said "this is bunk" it would do nothing to reduce the merit of the ideas. They stand on their own regardless of origin. On the other hand if Jesus could see the words attributed to him and said "this is bunk", then what?
You didn't think it would really be that easy did you?
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
And now, the rest of the wiki paragraph.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurus
Google is a wonderful tool.
I'll have to try it
Miguel Cervantes
Jedi Master
Merely a perspective. From a believers standpoint, despite which side of the wall you are on, this works both ways.
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
Diogenes Laertius researched Epicurus and used writings personally made by Epicurus to write his own book called Life of Epicurus which gave accurate information directly from the source. Laertius was the curator of Epicurus works.
atlashunter
Senior Member
How so? The origin and authenticity of the claims made about Jesus is central to the theology is it not? If Jesus didn't do what he was claimed to have done and say what he was claimed to have said, if the christian religion was a later distortion of who he was then what are you left with? But with Epicurus or Socrates it doesn't matter if the attributions are accurate or if they even ever existed at all. The ideas would still remain.
Miguel Cervantes
Jedi Master
Both were still basically a "philosophy" evidenced by nothing more than one man's opinion.
I could write volumes on the belief in purple flying elephants and back them up by my own personal accounts. The saddest part about that, in today's modern society and with the tools available to spread this word on the internet, I would immediately get a following of faithful believers.
Israel
BANNED
If you are speaking of Paul...he "got it".
Profoundly in implication "is there something that is happening when perfect righteousness and the need for expression of perfect mercy are brought into perfect proximity ...even in One?"
He saw...and found for himself what takes place, especially "in the flesh" when this is revealed to be Who He is.
atlashunter
Senior Member
If Jesus didn't do what he was claimed to have done and say what he was claimed to have said, if the christian religion was a later distortion of who he was then what are you left with?
Miguel Cervantes
Jedi Master
Who is going to disprove it.
I know of very few belief systems based on "If's", even yours.
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
Agreed, but the point is YOU would be writing it, the authors who wrote about Epicurus wrote it based off of his own personal writings. Jesus......he didn't write a thing. The authors, who tell of intricate details of conversations that took place between Jesus and one other person, were not there to hear these conversations.
Had the writers referenced Jesus' personal diary or the personal writings of Jesus, then it is a different story.
Contemporary historians talk of Epicurus and many other ancient people in great detail using the works of those people as evidence.
Jesus, he doesn't exist anywhere outside of scripture which was written by people who never knew him, never met him, and never had so much as a single letter of the alphabet written by Jesus to go by.
Miguel Cervantes
Jedi Master
Not according the red highlighted area of the link I provided.
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
Those fragments are what is left today.
The authors/commenters had more of his works to go by.
I guess another good thing about google is that a person can read multiple links about one subject and also research people who wrote about that subject in order to see where they got their information from.
atlashunter
Senior Member
Who is going to disprove it.
I know of very few belief systems based on "If's", even yours.
Probably no one but that is beside the point. The hypothetical is what you were responding to in the first place.
j_seph
Senior Member
From a little reading I do not see where the bible condones slavery. Slavery I read about is not as it was where blacks were captured and forced into slavery. Slavery was a means of getting money by selling yourself to cover a debt or take care of family. The bible even states in the OT Exodus 21:16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death. Then move over into the NT 1 Timothy 1:8-10
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For *****mongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
I just do not see slavery in the bible as slavery that we know of and understand in 2017
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For *****mongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
I just do not see slavery in the bible as slavery that we know of and understand in 2017
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
Do a lot of reading instead of just a little.
So if you were killed in battle and your wife and children are taken, are you confident that the bible instructs their new masters to treat them as working servants?
Or
Will somethings more sinister happen to them regularly?
Oh and maybe read the verses that have been posted in this thread that deal with slavery.
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