Archaeological find in Jerusalem ‘proves Bible passage is historically true’

ambush80 · Aug 8, 2017

TripleXBullies said:
That move for me made me incredibly uncomfortable around my parents. I don't know what it really did to them but I am sure they were devastated. My sister. I wasn't happy to do that to them. Then the looks I'd get if people around me found out.

The guys here made my re-conversion much easier than believers made my de-conversion. Thanks for accepting me.

I have to admit that I feel I take it "easy" on you because you're freshly minted. There are so many things I would ask you about but it would seem as though I was trying to tear down your belief. I guess that's how it must seem like to all believers, like we're trying to tear down their beliefs. You should know better than anyone that we're just trying to point out what we believe to be falsehood and incorrect thinking. Ultimately, I suppose I think that faith based belief is an obstruction to the advancement of society.

I find your path interesting. I wish I could REALLY talk to you about it, same goes for Pnome (I wish he would come down here more).

Miguel Cervantes · Aug 8, 2017

ambush80 said:
I have to admit that I feel I take it "easy" on you because you're freshly minted. There are so many things I would ask you about but it would seem as though I was trying to tear down your belief. I guess that's how it must seem like to all believers, like we're trying to tear down their beliefs. You should know better than anyone that we're just trying to point out what we believe to be falsehood and incorrect thinking. Ultimately, I suppose I think that faith based belief is an obstruction to the advancement of society.

I find your path interesting. I wish I could REALLY talk to you about it, same goes for Pnome (I wish he would come down here more).

That cumbersome dichotomy in a nutshell.

Why can't we all get along? :huh:

You believe what you want to believe, I believe what I want to believe and we'll share the same brand of adult beverage in discussions about them, without one attempting to disprove the other.

Nobody gets out of this journey alive.

ambush80 · Aug 8, 2017

Miguel Cervantes said:
That cumbersome dichotomy in a nutshell.

Why can't we all get along?

You believe what you want to believe, I believe what I want to believe and we'll share the same brand of adult beverage in discussions about them, without one attempting to disprove the other.

Nobody gets out of this journey alive.

Cheers to that.

We can absolutely all get along and we do, even when we disagree. The only time this stuff really matters is when it affects "The Commons" but we rarely talk about that stuff here which I find strange. I look at these discussions as a way to test my reasoning ability, "Iron sharpening Iron". I'm also very interested in the psychology of faith. I want to know what mental switches get thrown that lead someone to have a faith based belief. I use the same lines of questioning with all deists (or Pantheists, or Wiccans, or crystal healing believers).

The discussion of doctrine or text is really interesting as well because it's often where reasoning and faith intersect and that's a trainwreck that I can't look away from.

Miguel Cervantes · Aug 8, 2017

ambush80 said:
The discussion of doctrine or text is really interesting as well because it's often where reasoning and faith intersect and that's a trainwreck that I can't look away from.

I'm getting too old to marvel at train wrecks. They are little more than tilting at windmills. facepalm:

Chronological account
Moral foundation (before and after)
Cultural beliefs (before and after)
Paranormal experience (loosely interpreted for this application)

All of these apply to a faith based belief where Christianity is concerned. Splitting hairs over doctrine is where the "my plank is bigger than yours" schism occurs.

I for one would be appreciative of being afforded access and interlinear translations to ALL of the books of the original Biblical text. Not just the ones some group of angry tyrants decided would be good for me. But that in no way alters my faith based on my life's experiences.

Life is too short to worry about the big things. It is the little things that matter. Once you get far enough along in your journey and look back, you realize the little things were bigger than you thought at the time.

TripleXBullies · Aug 8, 2017

ambush80 said:
I have to admit that I feel I take it "easy" on you because you're freshly minted. There are so many things I would ask you about but it would seem as though I was trying to tear down your belief. I guess that's how it must seem like to all believers, like we're trying to tear down their beliefs. You should know better than anyone that we're just trying to point out what we believe to be falsehood and incorrect thinking. Ultimately, I suppose I think that faith based belief is an obstruction to the advancement of society.

I find your path interesting. I wish I could REALLY talk to you about it, same goes for Pnome (I wish he would come down here more).

You can ask me anything. I'm pretty sure I've heard it before - whether asked to me or someone else. Like I said it my other thread, things here are the same was they were 3 to 10 years before that. I'm also pretty sure I've asked myself all of those questions too. My answer to most of them is probably I don't know, though lol.

ambush80 · Aug 8, 2017

TripleXBullies said:
You can ask me anything. I'm pretty sure I've heard it before - whether asked to me or someone else. Like I said it my other thread, things here are the same was they were 3 to 10 years before that. I'm also pretty sure I've asked myself all of those questions too. My answer to most of them is probably I don't know, though lol.

Great!!!!

So, at some point did you believe that faith based belief was an obstruction to the advancement of society? If so, how do you feel about that now?

ambush80 · Aug 8, 2017

Miguel Cervantes said:
I'm getting too old to marvel at train wrecks. They are little more than tilting at windmills.

Chronological account
Moral foundation (before and after)
Cultural beliefs (before and after)
Paranormal experience (loosely interpreted for this application)

All of these apply to a faith based belief where Christianity is concerned. Splitting hairs over doctrine is where the "my plank is bigger than yours" schism occurs.

I for one would be appreciative of being afforded access and interlinear translations to ALL of the books of the original Biblical text. Not just the ones some group of angry tyrants decided would be good for me. But that in no way alters my faith based on my life's experiences.

Life is too short to worry about the big things. It is the little things that matter. Once you get far enough along in your journey and look back, you realize the little things were bigger than you thought at the time.

Those "life experiences" are the most interesting things to me. Many people have similar life experiences and come out of them with different points of view. How come? That's what I like to examine.

Miguel Cervantes · Aug 8, 2017

ambush80 said:
Those "life experiences" are the most interesting things to me. Many people have similar life experiences and come out of them with different points of view. How come? That's what I like to examine.

Because, Silly, we are all different. If we were all the same this website wouldn't even exist.

Doesn't matter which side of the fence you are on, or what you believe is the creator of "us". Whether it be a natural scientific process or an interstellar being, both are beyond our ability to replicate the process from on an atomic scale or based on our knowledge. No matter how hard we try to understand it and justify our take on it.

Those are big things. I don't worry about them.

TripleXBullies · Aug 8, 2017

ambush80 said:
Great!!!!

So, at some point did you believe that faith based belief was an obstruction to the advancement of society? If so, how do you feel about that now?

There may have been a time when I believe it was more vital to get rid of for other advancement. I still believe it CAN obstruct some advancement. Maybe sometimes it should and sometimes it shouldn't. Like cloning. I don't know that I could say it's good or bad that it's held that up in some way.

WaltL1 · Aug 8, 2017

TripleXBullies said:
Originally Posted by ambush80
Great!!!!
So, at some point did you believe that faith based belief was an obstruction to the advancement of society? If so, how do you feel about that now?

Click to expand...

TripleXBullies said:

There may have been a time when I believe it was more vital to get rid of for other advancement. I still believe it CAN obstruct some advancement. Maybe sometimes it should and sometimes it shouldn't. Like cloning. I don't know that I could say it's good or bad that it's held that up in some way.

Click to expand...

If I can jump in with my .02 cents.
I think maybe at one point it obstructed or slowed down advancement however I just don't think it has that kind of power/social impact any more.
I cant really think of any advancement that it is literally obstructing/stopping from a society standpoint.
Maybe it all depends on what one considers "advancement"?

ambush80 · Aug 9, 2017

WaltL1 said:
If I can jump in with my .02 cents.
I think maybe at one point it obstructed or slowed down advancement however I just don't think it has that kind of power/social impact any more.
I cant really think of any advancement that it is literally obstructing/stopping from a society standpoint.
Maybe it all depends on what one considers "advancement"?

Click to expand...

Fetal stem cell research.

WaltL1 · Aug 9, 2017

ambush80 said:
Fetal stem cell research.

Is happening as we speak.

Embryonic stem cells used for research develop from eggs that have been fertilized in vitro (in a laboratory). …

Embryonic stem cell research is not illegal in the US. President Bush banned the use of federal funds to advance such research, but not private and state funding

Embryonic stem cells are “starter cells” that can be coaxed into becoming any of the specialized cells of the body, meaning they are “pluripotent.” Embryonic stem cells are derived from eggs fertilized in the laboratory, not in a woman’s body.

And if religion had the ability to shut down embryonic stem cell search whether grown in a woman or a lab, science is ahead of that too -

Induced-pluripotent stem cells are adult stem cells that have been genetically altered to behave like embryonic stem cells. At present, they serve a valuable role in research and drug testing

TripleXBullies · Aug 9, 2017

I agree Walt. Its influence to slow things like that is diminishing.

WaltL1 · Aug 9, 2017

TripleXBullies said:
I agree Walt. Its influence to slow things like that is diminishing.

That's my opinion too.
Religion may be able to throw up some speed bumps, but science just drives up on the curb and goes around them.

But yes, there was a time in the past when religion was absolutely a road block that science wasn't able to get around.

WaltL1 · Aug 9, 2017

TripleX it dawned on me that you could probably make the case that religion actually spawned new technology in science by forcing science to develop new technology etc to get around religion such as mentioned above by making adult cells act like embryonic stem cells.
See, a positive spin complete with an example to back it up. :bounce:

Making it hold up to questioning is up to you though.

ky55 · Aug 9, 2017

WaltL1 said:
That's my opinion too.
Religion may be able to throw up some speed bumps, but science just drives up on the curb and goes around them.

But yes, there was a time in the past when religion was absolutely a road block that science wasn't able to get around.

Seems like there have been a lot more advancements since the Church stopped burning heretics at the stake.
Maybe it's just a coincidence.

:bounce:

WaltL1 · Aug 9, 2017

ky55 said:
Seems like there have been a lot more advancements since the Church stopped burning heretics at the stake.
Maybe it's just a coincidence.

"Ive stumbled upon the cure for cancer but I'm not saying nothing to nobody as I have no desire to be a human hot dog". :rofl:

TripleXBullies · Aug 9, 2017

WaltL1 said:
"Ive stumbled upon the cure for cancer but I'm not saying nothing to nobody as I have no desire to be a human hot dog".

Ya ever wonder what the Vatican has locked away?

WaltL1 · Aug 9, 2017

TripleXBullies said:
Ya ever wonder what the Vatican has locked away?

Piles and piles of cash previously owned by hard working Christians, tons of gold, seriously valuable art..............

But yes the stuff we don't know about would probably shock most folks.
Certainly would be interesting.
Probably the stuff that would be really interesting got burned, destroyed etc but you never know.....

Archaeological find in Jerusalem ‘proves Bible passage is historically true’

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