The NRA

NCHillbilly

Administrator
Staff member
You are correct. I mistyped when I said 'seize'. Search, I can do that if I choose...... should you not allw me, you then have to leave or I will have you arrested for criminal trespass. The Fourth Amendment only protects against searches and seizures conducted by the government or pursuant to governmental direction. Surveillance and investigatory actions taken by strictly private persons, such as private investigators, suspicious spouses, or nosey neighbors, are not governed by the Fourth Amendment. Read more here: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal...t-applies.html

Further reading: In its 1920 decision in Burdeau vs. McDowell, the U.S. Supreme Court held that the fourth amendment is not applicable to searches by private parties.

You are partly right, and partly wrong. According to the source that you linked yourself, employers can only search some things without a warrant. You can search your employees' computers, desk, workspace, company-owned vehicle, and such, because there is not reasonable expectation of privacy there. There is a reasonable expectation of privacy for a person's body, purse, briefcase, and personal vehicle.

You need a warrant or at the least a reasonable basis for suspicion that an illegal act is being committed against you in order to search those things. Carrying a legal weapon in a personal vehicle is not an illegal act, and is not causing you harm as an employer. The only way around it is if you make agreeing to searches of personal property a condition of employment. That is usually only done in places where there is a likelihood of employees stealing valuable or sensitive property or documents/files.

The fourth amendment may apply to the government, but that doesn't give you the right to go breaking into people's cars unless they have signed an agreement with you that allows you to search it. Breaking into a locked personal vehicle is very much a criminal act, regardless of where it is parked at. Try it and see what happens. Just because you wish you can do whatever you want doesn't give you the right to commit a crime against another person.

Surveillance of your employess is also your right, but even there you have limits. I don't think anyone is going to go for you having cameras in a bathroom stall or locker room, because of that same old pesky "reasonable expectation of privacy" that you don't seem to agree with.


Again, explain to me how an employee having a legal firearm locked up in their car is taking away your rights, or harming you in any way. It seems to me that it is much more about controlling other people than rights with you. You seem to be confusing employment with slavery. You don't own your employees, and you don't have the right to dictate their lives. In the early 1800s, you could have done all those things you want to to your "employees." But you can't now, sorry.
 

wareagle700

Senior Member
One thing that keeps getting missed here is that a vehicle does not change ownership when it crosses a property line nor does one give up their rights. However, they must follow the rules of the landowner or be asked to leave.

steeleagle has every right to ask anyone to leave his property, without an explanation. That's his right. However, he does not have the right to dictate what someone else does on their own property, be it a home, piece of land, or a vehicle.
 

NCHillbilly

Administrator
Staff member
One thing that keeps getting missed here is that a vehicle does not change ownership when it crosses a property line nor does one give up their rights. However, they must follow the rules of the landowner or be asked to leave.

steeleagle has every right to ask anyone to leave his property, without an explanation. That's his right. However, he does not have the right to dictate what someone else does on their own property, be it a home, piece of land, or a vehicle.
That's what I keep saying, but it falls on deaf ears. :)
 

Jester896

Senior Clown
One thing that keeps getting missed here is that a vehicle does not change ownership when it crosses a property line nor does one give up their rights.

that is what I was trying to convey earlier. At best I choose to waive my rights when I enter his fenced and guarded property. It is not that I don't have any rights on private property. I still maintain all of my rights and I get to choose whether I am going to waive them....not the property owner.

If he just has a parking lot for his employees all of this is moot.
 
that is what I was trying to convey earlier. At best I choose to waive my rights when I enter his fenced and guarded property. It is not that I don't have any rights on private property. I still maintain all of my rights and I get to choose whether I am going to waive them....not the property owner.

If he just has a parking lot for his employees all of this is moot.

Not True......You have no freedom of speech on private property BUT:

My whole point of bringing this subject up was to show the disgusting hypocrisy of many so called conservatives (Faux Conservatives). Instead of allowing the free market to work (Employee telling their employer that unless they allow X, they will not get their labor), they relied on the government to solve their problems. Why is more government the answer?
 

NCHillbilly

Administrator
Staff member

bullgator

Senior Member
I was at a doctors office a few years back and having casual conversation with the office crew. It was approaching lunchtime and the conversation went that direction. Any, they told me they weren't allow to bring any pork products to work. So if they brought lunch it meant no bacon on sandwiches as well as sliced pork, pork chops, etc.
The doctor was Muslim and a local big with CAIR.
I don't believe he searched their vehicles or even asked about them though.
 

transfixer

Senior Member
I was at a doctors office a few years back and having casual conversation with the office crew. It was approaching lunchtime and the conversation went that direction. Any, they told me they weren't allow to bring any pork products to work. So if they brought lunch it meant no bacon on sandwiches as well as sliced pork, pork chops, etc.
The doctor was Muslim and a local big with CAIR.
I don't believe he searched their vehicles or even asked about them though.

Nah,,,, he can do as he wishes, but has no right to say what they can eat.
 

wareagle700

Senior Member
Nah,,,, he can do as he wishes, but has no right to say what they can eat.

He does have the right to say it, and can even make it a rule in the workplace. However, if they choose to go to their cars and eat bacon and BBQ it's none of his business. Pick your battles....
 

Miguel Cervantes

Jedi Master
Sure he does. If he says no bacon on premesis and your bring it.....he can fire you.....Right to work state and all.

Actually he doesn't. He is confusing his religious rights with his employees constitutional rights and perhaps even hiring them violating employment laws where their religious rights cannot be taken into consideration nor infringed upon.

What an employee eats is doing no harm to him nor any other employee around them. That is the only criteria by which he can impose such a restriction and were his employees were to take this case to the Dept of Labor in their state he would lose, bigly.
 

bullgator

Senior Member
Can an employer forbid a Star of David necklace?, Muslim headwear (whatever its called)?, bumper stickers on cars?.
Where does the Constitution not lose to an overbearing employer?
 

pavogrande

Member
It seems this long thread started when mr steeleagle took issue with the NRA as they took away some of his "property rights".

When it comes to property rights mr steeleagle apparently has not heard of : planning commissions, zoning laws, building permits, building codes, and building inspectors.
If he has a business there is at least OSHA, EPA, ADA, and fire marshal.
Land in the country is nice too. Want to cut trees, talk to the div of forestry and perhaps fish and game.
Got a stream and want to dam it for a fish pond or swimming hole again see the div of forestry, EPA, fish and game and probably state dams and waterways.
Have wet lands, might as well give up on this one, everyone will shut you down here ---
So mr steeleagle does not have as many property rights as he seems to think but I don't think that i really his issue--

He really wants to control people. Property rights is just a smokescreen
He wants to control what is in their car and lunch pail, what they say and wear, how they cut their hair and anything else that comes to mind --

My first thought was he would welcome slavery but no, in order to protect his investment he would have to maintain their health and welfare, he would not wish to do that.

It appears he would really like to return to those exciting days of yesteryear and Serfdom -- YMMV
 

Ruger Redhawk

Senior Member
Now is definitely the time to join if you're not an NRA member.

We need everybody's help beating this latest threat against our 2nd Amendment. I don't know how much longer our backs are going to handle the weight w/o some much needed help.

I've been a NRA member since the very early 1970's got my NRA Life membership in 1977 and came up through the different membership levels to finally become a NRA Benefactor member back in March of 2013.
My wife is a NRA Life member.

The NRA isn't perfect but really what organization is? They by far are the best bang for our buck.

Let me personally thank all you fellow NRA members for your support and thank you to whose who are going to join and share the load. Thanks Y'all.
:flag:
 

transfixer

Senior Member
Sure he does. If he says no bacon on premesis and your bring it.....he can fire you.....Right to work state and all.

If I were to ever work for someone who believed they had the right to dictate what their employee eats during the time they are at work, I would likely quit before I could be fired, but that would be after I took said employer to the " proverbial woodshed" , for a demonstration of what free people will not tolerate! Free people will not tolerate a dictator ,,,,
 

bullgator

Senior Member
If I were to ever work for someone who believed they had the right to dictate what their employee eats during the time they are at work, I would likely quit before I could be fired, but that would be after I took said employer to the " proverbial woodshed" , for a demonstration of what free people will not tolerate! Free people will not tolerate a dictator ,,,,

Unfortunately, a dictatorship is just about what half of society is asking for.......most likely without realizing it.
 

Ruger#3

RAMBLIN ADMIN
Staff member
It's really simple, your 2A rights have zero to do with hunting. The sooner folks grasp that and take all action to preserve the 2nd the better off we will be.

“The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government”

Thomas Jefferson


FYI, Life Member NRA
 
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