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Old 01-13-2018, 02:25 PM
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What does this phrase mean? Whatever it means God is/was not All in All till Jesus hands the Kingdom to Him and becomes subject to Him.

I think I have a good idea, but I want to hear from others. Thanks.

1Corinthians 15:28
When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
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Old 01-13-2018, 05:36 PM
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What does this phrase mean? Whatever it means God is/was not All in All till Jesus hands the Kingdom to Him and becomes subject to Him.

I think I have a good idea, but I want to hear from others. Thanks.

1Corinthians 15:28
When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

Well, for starters the first time I even encountered the phrase, was here on this forum. It was a sermon from that Piper guy I think, ( might be wrong) on how all did not mean all, all the time.

But to address your query, I think this phrase, is akin to the phrase ( I paraphrase), "We shall see Him as he is." And we shall see....
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:41 PM
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That's not much Gordon, but I appreciate it. I'm putting together enough on this.. I may very well write a book on it.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:36 PM
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I think it means the time when there will be no more sin, curse, or evil. God will be all in all. Right now he isn't in everything and everyone.

God has appointed things for Jesus to do such as in these verses;
John 5:22
In addition, the Father judges no one. Instead, he has given the Son absolute authority to judge,

Acts 17:31
For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead."

1 Corinthians 15:27
For “God has put everything under His feet.” Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him.

Eventually when the kingdom comes to the earth, things will be subjected to Jesus who will eventually return all to his Father.

At that point all will be in all.

Philippians 3:21
who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

"enables him to bring everything under his authority."
"he is able even to subdue all things unto himself."

This is leading up to Jesus bringing everything under his authority before turning it over to his Father.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:41 PM
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"this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him."

This gives the appearance that the one who sent Christ is not under Christ's authority. He put everything under Christ's feet except Himself.
Eventually the Son Himself will be made subject to God returning his appointment back over to the One who appointed him.

After this has been done per verse 28, all will be in all.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:58 PM
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Art... What do you think of the NLTs rendering?

1 Corinthians 15:28New Living Translation (NLT)
28 Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.

Also, think of this.
Matt 21:43 Therefore I say unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:09 PM
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Colossians 3 : 10-11.... put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. 11Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.




John 1 KJV 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.


Ephesians 1:20which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, 21far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in the one to come.


-------------------
The Kingdom might just be relevant because there are other kingdoms. When all these kingdoms are dispossessed and starved to none existence, not even the memory of them in existence,--- then what is is is or is what is. Not even the need to call what is a kingdom will be.... Then all that is will be all in all. It's that simple...

Maybe.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by hobbs27 View Post
Art... What do you think of the NLTs rendering?

1 Corinthians 15:28New Living Translation (NLT)
28 Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under Godís authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.

Also, think of this.
Matt 21:43 Therefore I say unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
15:28 NLT looks like the others. What's the connection you see with Matt 21:43?
In Matt:21:43 the kingdom is taken from a nation and given to another nation. Ethnos. This is from the Lord, and it is marvelous in our eyes.

Fill me in.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:12 PM
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15:28 NLT looks like the others. What's the connection you see with Matt 21:43?
In Matt:21:43 the kingdom is taken from a nation and given to another nation. Ethnos. This is from the Lord, and it is marvelous in our eyes.

Fill me in.

Jesus took the Kingdom from the Jewish leaders... He then presented the Kingdom to God that God could be Everything ...Everywhere.

The Kingdom would then have Jesus as the High Priest and it would be spiritual, and without borders.

It's about the exchanging of the priesthood and expansion of the Kingdom.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by gordon 2 View Post
Colossians 3 : 10-11.... put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. 11Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.




John 1 KJV 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.


Ephesians 1:20which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, 21far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in the one to come.


-------------------
The Kingdom might just be relevant because there are other kingdoms. When all these kingdoms are dispossessed and starved to none existence, not even the memory of them in existence,--- then what is is is or is what is. Not even the need to call what is a kingdom will be.... Then all that is will be all in all. It's that simple...

Maybe.
I like it!
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  #11  
Old 01-13-2018, 11:27 PM
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Jesus took the Kingdom from the Jewish leaders... He then presented the Kingdom to God that God could be Everything ...Everywhere.

The Kingdom would then have Jesus as the High Priest and it would be spiritual, and without borders.

It's about the exchanging of the priesthood and expansion of the Kingdom.
He took the Kingdom from Israel. It will be given to an ethnos that will produce fruit.

Is the Father an ethnos? Is an ethnos everywhere? Is everyone producing fruit? Has everyone overcome the stumbling stone? Has they Kingdom come on earth as it is in Heaven? Has all been restored? Has the blindness mentioned in Romans 11 been removed? The one applied in order that the full number of Gentiles can come in? Has that ethnos been restored as Romans 11 says it will? Will that ethnos again produce fruit as per Romans 11?
As it stands now, we do know that the kingdom has been taken from the vineyard.
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Old 01-14-2018, 04:46 AM
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1Peter 2:9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

A Kingdom is a royal government. Jesus is our High priest and you can see these first generation Christians were made a royal priesthood of the Kingdom.

God rules the Kingdom with Jesus in subjection to God, making Christ's Kingdom a Holy nation, and we are made Kings and priests unto God in this Kingdom.

Revelation 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

....And this Kingdom has no end.
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Old 01-14-2018, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by hobbs27 View Post
Jesus took the Kingdom from the Jewish leaders... He then presented the Kingdom to God that God could be Everything ...Everywhere.

The Kingdom would then have Jesus as the High Priest and it would be spiritual, and without borders.

It's about the exchanging of the priesthood and expansion of the Kingdom.
Then the Son has put himself under Godís authority? He has returned "all" as promised back to the Father?
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Old 01-14-2018, 11:11 AM
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1Peter 2:9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

A Kingdom is a royal government. Jesus is our High priest and you can see these first generation Christians were made a royal priesthood of the Kingdom.

God rules the Kingdom with Jesus in subjection to God, making Christ's Kingdom a Holy nation, and we are made Kings and priests unto God in this Kingdom.

Revelation 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

....And this Kingdom has no end.
"The Kingdom would then have Jesus as the High Priest and it would be spiritual, and without borders."quote

God took his Kingdom from the leaders of Israel. You believe the Nation(ethnos) that God will give his Kingdom to is a spiritual ethnos? That he has already given it to this new ethnos?
Can we now use Nation in place of Kingdom when we read scripture?
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Old 01-14-2018, 11:22 AM
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I think I have a good idea,
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I may very well write a book on it.
I don't know which statement amuses me more.
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:05 PM
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Philippians 3:21
who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

Will Jesus still be able to do this after he does this in Corinthians?

1 Corinthians 15:28
Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:15 PM
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Jesus took the Kingdom from the Jewish leaders... He then presented the Kingdom to God that God could be Everything ...Everywhere.

The Kingdom would then have Jesus as the High Priest and it would be spiritual, and without borders.

It's about the exchanging of the priesthood and expansion of the Kingdom.
When was the Kingdom taken from Israel and given to the new ethnos? How does this fall into play with the mystery revealed by God to Paul?
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Old 01-14-2018, 07:07 PM
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When was the Kingdom taken from Israel and given to the new ethnos? How does this fall into play with the mystery revealed by God to Paul?
At the last day. They had already been made kings and priests but hadn't been vindicated until the old covenant was completely destroyed.

Not sure what you're asking about the falling into play.
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Old 01-14-2018, 07:11 PM
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Philippians 3:21
who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

Will Jesus still be able to do this after he does this in Corinthians?

1 Corinthians 15:28
Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under Godís authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.
Yes, He's made subject to God, but continues to rule the Kingdom.
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Old 01-14-2018, 08:34 PM
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Yes, He's made subject to God, but continues to rule the Kingdom.
Doesn't 1 Corinthians 15:28 say otherwise?

Leading up to verse 22;

1 Corinthians 15:24
Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

Do you see it more as a general handing over a new land to the president at the end of a war? The general is still a general even after handing the kingdom to the president.
He's not ending the general's appointment.

I don't see it that way because when it's all over, it's over. All dominion, authority, and power will have been destroyed. It's more like the general will not be needed in that capacity any longer. He will take his position at the right hand of the president.

He hands it over as in giving up his reign. He is not presenting it as a gift as if continuing to reign.
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Old 01-14-2018, 08:43 PM
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Jesus was given authority to rule as long as there were enemies. He has also been given authority to judge. He will have this authority as long as it is needed.
When he isn't needed in that capacity, he will return that authority, given through appointment, back to the One who gave it to him.
I don't think it means he continues to reign in that capacity after that. Mainly because it won't be needed. The Kingdom doesn't end at that point, it's just Jesus isn't needed to defeat any more enemies.

I could be wrong. I was wrong once.

It could be and many others believe that it's not the end of Jesus' reign over the Kingdom. That he is just giving his Father a tribute.
Such as "Here Father is this Kingdom" a tribute to you that I will continue to reign as King over while you ultimately reign over my Kingdom and the Universe.

“he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet”
Doesn't say that he can't reign after that.

Maybe in the Trinity or Oneness of it all the Kingdom Jesus hands over to his Father becomes indistinguishable with that of his Father's.

Last edited by Artfuldodger; 01-15-2018 at 12:30 AM.
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Old 01-14-2018, 09:05 PM
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Yes, He's made subject to God, but continues to rule the Kingdom.
Well I'm reading that that may be possible. If Jesus was not subject to his Father before his incarnation, did the incarnation make him subject to his Father?
Will he always be subject to his Father?
I thought maybe when he returned to Heaven, he would once again become a part of the Trinity or Oneness that he shared before the Incarnation as in equal to and not subject to.

It's hard to picture Jesus still ruling over a Kingdom, but still subject to God the Father. I would think hierarchy would no longer be needed or I'm having a hard time picturing how it works within the Trinity or Oneness.

Interesting. I still believe I will see the Father and the Son. I don't have an image of only seeing God as the Son.

Last edited by Artfuldodger; 01-14-2018 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 01-14-2018, 10:50 PM
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I don't know which statement amuses me more.
It is hard to stay on topic, I know. However, yes, as for me and my house we are not craving another book on what's in The Book. They are numerous as the grains of sand...
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Old 01-15-2018, 09:38 AM
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Well I'm reading that that may be possible. If Jesus was not subject to his Father before his incarnation, did the incarnation make him subject to his Father?
Will he always be subject to his Father?
I thought maybe when he returned to Heaven, he would once again become a part of the Trinity or Oneness that he shared before the Incarnation as in equal to and not subject to.

It's hard to picture Jesus still ruling over a Kingdom, but still subject to God the Father. I would think hierarchy would no longer be needed or I'm having a hard time picturing how it works within the Trinity or Oneness.

Interesting. I still believe I will see the Father and the Son. I don't have an image of only seeing God as the Son.

Christ's reign is forever and the Kingdom in which we live has no end... Isaiah 9:7...luke 1:33, Revelation 11:15.. And I can provide more.

Since there is no end of this age ( Ephesians 3:21) then the end that came was the old covenant age.

Christ was given all authority by the Father to do the deeds necessary to establish a new covenant. Jesus returned in the Glory of God... Not in His earthly flesh. On the day of the Lord.

He returned to the Father, became subject of the Father, in that He sat at His right hand. Jesus rules the Kingdom, but both Jesus and the Kingdom are subject to God.... Not that either are faulty, but both are Holy, and if Holy, of God.
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Old 01-15-2018, 09:42 AM
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The handing over the Kingdom was not relinquishing power... You don't hand your bride over to your Father after the wedding. It was bringing the bride into the family that she to be subject to the patriarch... Be Holy.
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