Has any one used braided line instead of

injun joe

Gone But Not Forgotten
I've spent some time casting mini-flukes and roboworms with my heavier fly rods. Actually, "casting" is not the proper term - it's more of a lob, like nymph fishing in winter with a weighted fly, strike indicator, and half a box of split shot on your leader.

In this case, the weight of the "fly" so over-powers the line and leader, it turns itself over, and you don't need a tapered leader.
If I'm fishing in shallow water, I'll just use a straight 4-5 ft piece of 15# fluoro leader material; if deeper, I'll use 4 ft of 25# attached to 3-4 ft of 15#.

Not a pretty way to fish, but very effective for bass.

We used to do the same with nightcrawlers. It is terribly effective.
 

firebreather

Senior Member
I've spent some time casting mini-flukes and roboworms with my heavier fly rods. Actually, "casting" is not the proper term - it's more of a lob, like nymph fishing in winter with a weighted fly, strike indicator, and half a box of split shot on your leader.

In this case, the weight of the "fly" so over-powers the line and leader, it turns itself over, and you don't need a tapered leader.
If I'm fishing in shallow water, I'll just use a straight 4-5 ft piece of 15# fluoro leader material; if deeper, I'll use 4 ft of 25# attached to 3-4 ft of 15#.

Not a pretty way to fish, but very effective for bass.



Yea right now it's just 6ft max depth just trying to key in on points, and ditches up of the edge of a point where bass are pulling up for the pre spawn , especially shallow stumps etc
 

NCHillbilly

Administrator
Staff member
Ok I won't argue ,you don't know what I'm trying to do ,,,and you'd never understand

Yes, I understand what you're trying to do, because I have done it before.

I also understand that you are asking for advice on a fly-fishing forum from folks who have been fly fishing for decades and have tens of thousands of hours of collective experience, then discount any advice that they give you, and insult them to boot. Do what you want, but don't ask for advice if you feel that you already know more about fly fishing than the folks you are asking.
 

IvyThicket

Senior Member
You're trying to make a spinning rod out of a fly rod.

C'mon now. That's a little insulting to say the least. He's throwing a fluke, not a crankbait. As if one would fish a fluke any differently for bass than he would a Clouser.

Some of you say you aren't purist but you are sure are acting like it. I was taught fly fishing here in the NC mountains by my grandfather who taught himself to fly fish here in the 1930’s by finding bugs on the stream, fishing with them, and then tying an imitation with whatever he had. So I get it, I do, but I'm not going to trash a man doing anything that gets a fly rod in his hand. He'll figure out what works and what doesn't as we all have.

Don't worry about using the tippet section of your leader either. You can always tie more on.

The fly fishing industry is evolving every day. What was once a very reasonable and cheap sport has become dominated by gear heads, where you get judged stepping out of the truck by what name you have on your net, waders, pack or reel. What once was a sport predicated on small dry flies tied from organic material you could cut off of your deer, turkey, pheasant or grouse kill, has now become dominated by synthetics and fluorescent dyed animal products. At one time all you needed on the stream was a rod, reel, leader and a dip can filled with flies. Now it’s 8 spools of tippet, 4 fly boxes, a package of strike indicators, a package of spit shot, a water thermometer, a leader wallet, a Go Pro camera and a craft beer, all in a $200 glorified fanny pack. None of it is wrong, it’s all preference. I think nearly all of these innovations and styles at one point or another were figured out by someone who was told he was doing it wrong. It’s like the guy who is getting trashed for tying a worm that catches a ton of fish, out of a puffer ball, because it wasn’t created from something he could find in a fly shop, as if a squirmy is anything different solely because it is packaged for fly fisherman. I think a lot of people forget that the very root of fly fishing is taking what you have around you and what is readily available to you, and figuring out how it can catch fish and how many different ways you can fish it. It’s not about what Orvis has conveniently packaged for you. He's obviously having some difficulty, but I don't think the fluke is it. It may be the size of the fluke, but not the fluke itself.

Rant over.

My fly buddy told me to put a 2ft leader on the end of my tapered leader ,and I can make several lure changes instead of using up my tapered leader , when it gets down to the end of my 2 ft leader add a new one ,instead of burning up my 9 ft tapered leader ,that way it will last longer

I think this is your biggest issue right here. 11ft of leader is WAY too long. If you’re false casting with that big of a fly and 11ft of leader, you’d have to have a TON of fly line off the reel and loading the road, to get the fluke to turnover properly. Chances are you’re not getting that much line off because you don’t need it. In turn you’re trying to project the fly on mainly the leader. There’s not enough power transfer in that and thus your fly is falling short or not casting properly. I rarely recommend a leader longer than the rod you’re using. Some exceptions are if you’re doing doing some form of European nymphing or saltwater fishing. I tie French leaders so long that I don’t even get fly line off the reel but of course that doesn’t apply to you. Even the standard Bonefish/Saltwter leader is only around 9-10ft. Shorten the leader, use a lighter fluke and try it again.

Don't worry about using the tippet section on your leader either. You can always tie more on.
 
Last edited:

NCHillbilly

Administrator
Staff member
C'mon now. That's a little insulting to say the least. He's throwing a fluke, not a crankbait. As if one would fish a fluke any differently for bass than he would a Clouser.

Some of you say you aren't purist but you are sure are acting like it. I was taught fly fishing here in the NC mountains by my grandfather who taught himself to fly fish here in the 1930’s by finding bugs on the stream, fishing with them, and then tying an imitation with whatever he had. So I get it, I do, but I'm not going to trash a man doing anything that gets a fly rod in his hand. He'll figure out what works and what doesn't as we all have.

Don't worry about using the tippet section of your leader either. You can always tie more on.

The fly fishing industry is evolving every day. What was once a very reasonable and cheap sport has become dominated by gear heads, where you get judged stepping out of the truck by what name you have on your net, waders, pack or reel. What once was a sport predicated on small dry flies tied from organic material you could cut off of your deer, turkey, pheasant or grouse kill, has now become dominated by synthetics and fluorescent dyed animal products. At one time all you needed on the stream was a rod, reel, leader and a dip can filled with flies. Now it’s 8 spools of tippet, 4 fly boxes, a package of strike indicators, a package of spit shot, a water thermometer, a leader wallet, a Go Pro camera and a craft beer, all in a $200 glorified fanny pack. None of it is wrong, it’s all preference. I think nearly all of these innovations and styles at one point or another were figured out by someone who was told he was doing it wrong. It’s like the guy who is getting trashed for tying a worm that catches a ton of fish, out of a puffer ball, because it wasn’t created from something he could find in a fly shop, as if a squirmy is anything different solely because it is packaged for fly fisherman. I think a lot of people forget that the very root of fly fishing is taking what you have around you and what is readily available to you, and figuring out how it can catch fish and how many different ways you can fish it. It’s not about what Orvis has conveniently packaged for you. He's obviously having some difficulty, but I don't think the fluke is it. It may be the size of the fluke, but not the fluke itself.

Rant over.



I think this is your biggest issue right here. 11ft of leader is WAY too long. If you’re false casting with that big of a fly and 11ft of leader, you’d have to have a TON of fly line off the reel and loading the road, to get the fluke to turnover properly. Chances are you’re not getting that much line off because you don’t need it. In turn you’re trying to project the fly on mainly the leader. There’s not enough power transfer in that and thus your fly is falling short or not casting properly. I rarely recommend a leader longer than the rod you’re using. Some exceptions are if you’re doing doing some form of European nymphing or saltwater fishing. I tie French leaders so long that I don’t even get fly line off the reel but of course that doesn’t apply to you. Even the standard Bonefish/Saltwter leader is only around 9-10ft. Shorten the leader, use a lighter fluke and try it again.

Don't worry about using the tippet section on your leader either. You can always tie more on.

Not intended as a purist remark at all. I have thrown everything from flatfish plugs to Joefly spinners to small rapalas to live nightcrawlers on a fly rod over the years.

It was intended as saying that one reason he's having problems is because a fly rod really isn't designed to cast heavy, bulky spinning lures. The same problems apply to weighted streamers. Most of the time with that kind of thing, you have to more flip and roll it than cast it in the traditional sense. You're not going to get a pretty cast with a tight loop throwing a big rubber fluke like you would with a dry fly. Basically the same thing you are saying. Some lures work better with some equipment, that's why there are different types of equipment.

And I agree that 11' is way too long for a bass leader. When I fly fish for bass, which I do quite a bit in the summertime, I usually use about a 7 1/2' leader that consists of a tapered leader stub with a couple-three feet of about 8-10 lb. mono as a tippet. The big heavy flies will usually turn it right over.
 

centerpin fan

Senior Member
It was intended as saying that one reason he's having problems is because a fly rod really isn't designed to cast heavy, bulky spinning lures.

Same here. Most beginners have enough trouble casting tiny flies. Why make things worse throwing a big chunk of plastic?
 

centerpin fan

Senior Member
Some of you say you aren't purist but you are sure are acting like it. I was taught fly fishing here in the NC mountains by my grandfather who taught himself to fly fish here in the 1930’s by finding bugs on the stream, fishing with them, and then tying an imitation with whatever he had. So I get it, I do, but I'm not going to trash a man doing anything that gets a fly rod in his hand. He'll figure out what works and what doesn't as we all have.

Again, I don't care how anyone fishes. I grew up reading Ted Trueblood's stories of using redworms with his fly rod. I'm a big fan of Tom Nixon, who threw big plastic worms and even spinnerbaits on his fly rods. Personally, I've thrown plastics and live bait with my fly rods. I've even been known to cast artificial flies.

But the guy did ask for help. You and I both know there's not a fly instructor on earth who would counsel a beginner to use a 5wt with 4X tippet to throw a 5" fluke.
 

IvyThicket

Senior Member
It was intended as saying that one reason he's having problems is because a fly rod really isn't designed to cast heavy, bulky spinning lures. The same problems apply to weighted streamers. Most of the time with that kind of thing, you have to more flip and roll it than cast it in the traditional sense. You're not going to get a pretty cast with a tight loop throwing a big rubber fluke like you would with a dry fly. Basically the same thing you are saying. Some lures work better with some equipment, that's why there are different types of equipment.

I completely agree with this HOWEVER, the fluke isn't the issue. The size of the fluke is. He could easily fish a 3" Zoom tiny fluke and it not weigh anymore than size 8 Girdle Bug with a lead wire wrap. I just found exception to saying he is wrong for even trying the fluke.
 

IvyThicket

Senior Member
But the guy did ask for help. You and I both know there's not a fly instructor on earth who would counsel a beginner to use a 5wt with 4X tippet to throw a 5" fluke.

Completely agree but I know of many who, especially if he said he was lake fishing, wouldn't discourage him from trying different lures whether they were solely marketed to fly fisherman or not. Heck, he could probably even get away with tossing 3" slim senko's as a wacky rig.

Again, I don't take exception with telling him he's using it incorrectly. I do with telling him not to use lures marketed towards spin gear, on a fly rod. The fluke is too heavy, I do agree.
 

firebreather

Senior Member
Thanks , I guess from what I'm reading is
1 cut 2 ft of my tapered line ,or use almost 2 ft of of it then tie on an 2 ft leader on ,that way when I change lure or what ever when my leader gets to short I can put a new one on , I'm not saying I was with intent to go and throw a fluke on purpose , I bought lots of bass lures designed for my fly rod , but they weren't hitting it , . BUT!!! They were hitting the fluke on the spinning reel , and I wanted to catch them on my fly rod so bad, I put the only thing on I had ,,the fluke, now I'm gonna buy some small flukes to make it less harder on my rod , Lord knows I knew I was pushing my limits , but when they bit that fly rod it was so much sweeter than the spinning rod , NOT to mention when that 3lb cat inhaled that fluke as well.
I was also told don't throw a line or tapered leader longer than my pole so I figured 9ft pole ,=9ft leader or if you will tapered line
 

injun joe

Gone But Not Forgotten
Stay after it, Firebreather, it's mostly a trial and error thing anyway.

" I grew up reading Ted Trueblood's stories of using redworms with his fly rod."
^This is how my grandfather taught me to fish. I'll never forget those trips.
 

firebreather

Senior Member
2nd do they make a fluke that's designed for Fly rods? Or is the fluke jr still to big
Dont get me wrong , i want to fish rivers too . But some local lakes are closer to me and time wise with work load easier to get to .not to mention i like the idea of fishing for bass with a fly rod as well as trout
And if this plays out well I'll probably go buy a bigger fly rod for bass only, but buying the TFO set up was a substantial cost for me ,before i really step of the deep end and get into it whole heartily.
But with my time right now I need more practice and besides the backyard and a couple of 5 gal buckets to cast to I like being on the water for realtime practice
 

centerpin fan

Senior Member
2nd do they make a fluke that's designed for Fly rods? Or is the fluke jr still to big

If you're wedded to the fluke, I'd get the smallest one they make. As I said before, try the Belgian cast.

Also, I just want to encourage you to try some actual flies, not because that's the "pure" thing to do, but because they will be much easier to cast. Any small baitfish pattern will work well. (FWIW, I buy a lot of mine at Cabela's.)
 

GLS

Classic Southern Gentleman
I also recently installed ,what I call a Chinese grip connector on the end of my fly line
It's already got a premade loop and the tapered leader has a loop so I made a loop to loop to connect it

Prepare yourself for it releasing at the worst time.
 

NCHillbilly

Administrator
Staff member
Thanks , I guess from what I'm reading is
1 cut 2 ft of my tapered line ,or use almost 2 ft of of it then tie on an 2 ft leader on ,that way when I change lure or what ever when my leader gets to short I can put a new one on , I'm not saying I was with intent to go and throw a fluke on purpose , I bought lots of bass lures designed for my fly rod , but they weren't hitting it , . BUT!!! They were hitting the fluke on the spinning reel , and I wanted to catch them on my fly rod so bad, I put the only thing on I had ,,the fluke, now I'm gonna buy some small flukes to make it less harder on my rod , Lord knows I knew I was pushing my limits , but when they bit that fly rod it was so much sweeter than the spinning rod , NOT to mention when that 3lb cat inhaled that fluke as well.
I was also told don't throw a line or tapered leader longer than my pole so I figured 9ft pole ,=9ft leader or if you will tapered line

There is something about hooking a fish on a fly rod, for sure. It just feels better fighting. :)
 

NCHillbilly

Administrator
Staff member
I completely agree with this HOWEVER, the fluke isn't the issue. The size of the fluke is. He could easily fish a 3" Zoom tiny fluke and it not weigh anymore than size 8 Girdle Bug with a lead wire wrap. I just found exception to saying he is wrong for even trying the fluke.

You're misreading me. I never said he shouldn't try the fluke or said it was a bad thing. As I said, I've fished worms with a fly rod in my younger days. My point was that it just wasn't going to be as easy as casting a fly. Those girdle bugs don't cast easy, either-especially for a beginner. I usually just lob and roll them myself.
 

firebreather

Senior Member
Saw a video ,or a 5 sec clip of a guy holding his lure and putting pressure on his line and rod and letting go , what kind cast is that called ,?
I didn't see a video on how to do that , I did however look at the belgian oval , but looked like the short one I saw the guy was trying to put a fly in a exact spot shooting it in there
 

centerpin fan

Senior Member
Saw a video ,or a 5 sec clip of a guy holding his lure and putting pressure on his line and rod and letting go , what kind cast is that called ,?
I didn't see a video on how to do that , I did however look at the belgian oval , but looked like the short one I saw the guy was trying to put a fly in a exact spot shooting it in there

The first cast you mention sounds like a bow-and-arrow cast.

As for the Belgian, it's great for casting weight.

Videos are good, but nothing will help you as much as a lesson from a good teacher. Starting out right can save you years of frustration. Orvis stores often have FREE beginners classes. Take one!
 

IvyThicket

Senior Member
The Belgian Cast is a great recommendation for casting into the wind and casting heavier flies. It's essentially a more open and wide version of a roll cast. It keeps your line moving on the water so that there's always tension. You could also learn to double haul. Hauling the line get's it moving faster.
 
Last edited:

swampstalker24

Senior Member
Go out and get ya some nice meaty zonkers or maribu streamers .... once you see how those suckers come alive in the water you'll forget all about those dang flukes!!
 
Top