Three God people.

gordon 2 · Jan 8, 2012

mtnwoman said:
And the generation before that, it was communism.

Our entire country is being taken over by illegals without a shot fired. We need to be protecting our own country and borders and let the rest of the world fight each other to the death.....muslims have been causing problems for thousands of years, not all muslims but some. But don't think for a minute if the extremists tried to take over our country, they wouldn't have plenty of backup even from peaceful muslims in this country. Same way we backed each other in killing off the native americans, who did nothing to us.

Rock of ages cleft for me...was perhaps a moral recognition of the seperation, and not a nearing, of the justice of Christ and the justice lived by a pilgrim.

Perhaps it is time to pen a new hymn of not only a world to come, for and from a world of sorrow that will ever be, but to all of creation from the justice of our Lord and without seperation in all our hearts. Can we continue forever to hide in the Lord?

justrun · Jan 8, 2012

IMO, I believe about 90% what has been posted above is incorrect. My short and shallow background dealing with Muslims has been mostly in Iraq while I was deployed. I was in a unique position, twice, while deployed. We were on a small team of Army guys serving as combat advisers to the Iraqi Army. This put us into position to live on an Iraqi FOB and spend 24 hours a day with them for a year. My counterpart was an elderly LTC and loved talking religion to me. I also had other counterparts from Sunni, Shia, and Kurds. I could talk for hours on this subject but the main point is that 99% of the Muslims are the nicest and caring people that you have ever met. The other 1% make the news. Most Muslims love Christians and believe that we will join them in heaven. Even the radical Muslims don't hate Christians, they hate Americans and the sinful way of life. We were in the worst part of Iraq and it was worse than the news ever reported. Everyone was fighting everyone EXCEPT in one area. That was the only Christian area that we had in our area of operations and it was quiet. No body bothered them, no Sunni's, Shia, or even AQI. There was to hate for the Christians and therefore no violence. We went and checked on them every once and a while but that was it. As for the Sunni and Shia thing, well most Iraqi's will tell you that there wasn't much fighting between them until the media (out media) kept reporting that there was fighting between them. To understand that violence over there you have to study the power struggle between tribes. But anyway, I have made many lifelong Muslim friends from Iraq and have learned a lot from them. BTW, the most common female name in Iraq is Miriam, a version of Mary.

gordon 2 · Jan 9, 2012

justrun said:
IMO, I believe about 90% what has been posted above is incorrect. My short and shallow background dealing with Muslims has been mostly in Iraq while I was deployed. I was in a unique position, twice, while deployed. We were on a small team of Army guys serving as combat advisers to the Iraqi Army. This put us into position to live on an Iraqi FOB and spend 24 hours a day with them for a year. My counterpart was an elderly LTC and loved talking religion to me. I also had other counterparts from Sunni, Shia, and Kurds. I could talk for hours on this subject but the main point is that 99% of the Muslims are the nicest and caring people that you have ever met. The other 1% make the news. Most Muslims love Christians and believe that we will join them in heaven. Even the radical Muslims don't hate Christians, they hate Americans and the sinful way of life. We were in the worst part of Iraq and it was worse than the news ever reported. Everyone was fighting everyone EXCEPT in one area. That was the only Christian area that we had in our area of operations and it was quiet. No body bothered them, no Sunni's, Shia, or even AQI. There was to hate for the Christians and therefore no violence. We went and checked on them every once and a while but that was it. As for the Sunni and Shia thing, well most Iraqi's will tell you that there wasn't much fighting between them until the media (out media) kept reporting that there was fighting between them. To understand that violence over there you have to study the power struggle between tribes. But anyway, I have made many lifelong Muslim friends from Iraq and have learned a lot from them. BTW, the most common female name in Iraq is Miriam, a version of Mary.

Perhaps, in this instance, there is a significant difference between the religious-social IQ of Iraqi and Libyan societies? Iraqi society was ever more open than Libya's, perhaps. Sadam's long standing foreign minister was christian if I recall. Iraq has been/is a large and culturally divers country compared to Libya's...

My limited knowledge comes from Libyan and Iraq doctors and university profs..which I have worked with. All these people as you say, are the nicest and caring people you will ever meet... and all muslim.

JB0704 · Jan 9, 2012

justrun said:
Most Muslims love Christians and believe that we will join them in heaven. Even the radical Muslims don't hate Christians, they hate Americans and the sinful way of life.

I think it would be a better world if the 99% of muslims you speak of would try and tell us this stuff themselves, instead of letting the radicals within their religion be their ambassadors to the world.

gordon 2 · Jan 9, 2012

JB0704 said:
I think it would be a better world if the 99% of muslims you speak of would try and tell us this stuff themselves, instead of letting the radicals within their religion be their ambassadors to the world.

Would 99% of christians ever do what you ask of muslims?

For example are the republican candidates of which one is perhaps going to be the next president of the US the nice and careing christian ambassadors to the world or example of christian radicals, extreme within a greater christian religion? From the perspective of other nations and religions? The reported sectarianism between mormans and evanglicals in this political case, is a reminder of religious and political sectarianism elsewhere??? Perhaps? Just sayin.

JB0704 · Jan 9, 2012

gordon 2 said:
Would 99% of christians ever do what you ask of muslims?

Sure. I would, and I am sure you would too. All I am saying is that if 99% of the muslims in the world love Christians, it might be a good thing too hear about that as opposed to being called the great satan.

gordon 2 said:
For example are the republican candidates of which one is perhaps going to be the next president of the US the nice and careing christian ambassadors to the world or example of christian radicals, extreme within a greater christian religion? From the perspective of other nations and religions? The reported sectarianism between mormans and evanglicals in this political case, is a reminder of religious and political sectarianism elsewhere??? Perhaps? Just sayin.

And if any of those republican candidates declare a christian version of Jihad on the muslims in the world I would think you are on to something.

Again, I am not anti-muslim. I am just a little hesitant to buy into the whole "they love us" concept when we hear silence from the masses as the vocal ones declare a holy war.

dawg2 · Jan 9, 2012

1gr8bldr said:
Every religion is misrepresented in some way by it's opponets. I have heard it said that Muslims are a peaceful people given a bad name by the extreme of the Muslim faith. We don't actually see that many Muslims killing people. Sure we see it sometimes but not considering how many Muslims there are. Hard to acuse 1000's of Muslims as killers for what 2% did

There are not thousands of muslims. There are over 2.2 BILLION. I would venture to guess that less than 2% are the problem.

To put that into perspective: Basically 1 in 4 people on this planet are muslim.

centerpin fan · Jan 9, 2012

gordon 2 said:
For example are the republican candidates of which one is perhaps going to be the next president of the US the nice and careing christian ambassadors to the world or example of christian radicals …

Between the two, I would vote for the former, although it’s not the job of the president to be a Christian ambassador.

gordon 2 said:
The reported sectarianism between mormans and evanglicals in this political case, is a reminder of religious and political sectarianism elsewhere???

Historically, the animosity has been on the side of the evangelicals. Do you know why the Mormons are in Utah? Because they were driven there, and I don’t mean driven in a car. I mean run out of town and threatened with their lives.

dawg2 · Jan 9, 2012

justrun said:
IMO, I believe about 90% what has been posted above is incorrect. My short and shallow background dealing with Muslims has been mostly in Iraq while I was deployed. I was in a unique position, twice, while deployed. We were on a small team of Army guys serving as combat advisers to the Iraqi Army. This put us into position to live on an Iraqi FOB and spend 24 hours a day with them for a year. My counterpart was an elderly LTC and loved talking religion to me. I also had other counterparts from Sunni, Shia, and Kurds. I could talk for hours on this subject but the main point is that 99% of the Muslims are the nicest and caring people that you have ever met. The other 1% make the news. Most Muslims love Christians and believe that we will join them in heaven. Even the radical Muslims don't hate Christians, they hate Americans and the sinful way of life. We were in the worst part of Iraq and it was worse than the news ever reported. Everyone was fighting everyone EXCEPT in one area. That was the only Christian area that we had in our area of operations and it was quiet. No body bothered them, no Sunni's, Shia, or even AQI. There was to hate for the Christians and therefore no violence. We went and checked on them every once and a while but that was it. As for the Sunni and Shia thing, well most Iraqi's will tell you that there wasn't much fighting between them until the media (out media) kept reporting that there was fighting between them. To understand that violence over there you have to study the power struggle between tribes. But anyway, I have made many lifelong Muslim friends from Iraq and have learned a lot from them. BTW, the most common female name in Iraq is Miriam, a version of Mary.

That has been my experience with muslims as well.

JB0704 said:
I think it would be a better world if the 99% of muslims you speak of would try and tell us this stuff themselves, instead of letting the radicals within their religion be their ambassadors to the world.

Wat do news agencies run for ratings?

1) A baptist preacher and muslim cleric holding hands and skipping through a daisy field

-OR-

2) Some stereotypical fanatic pointing and shaking an accusing finger with spittle flying everywhere with an AK on his shoulder.

JB0704 · Jan 9, 2012

dawg2 said:
Wat do news agencies run for ratings?

1) A baptist preacher and muslim cleric holding hands and skipping through a daisy field

-OR-

2) Some stereotypical fanatic pointing and shaking an accusing finger with spittle flying everywhere with an AK on his shoulder.

I am not going to get into a position where I am left defending intolerance, because that is not how I believe. I understand what gets ratings, but also know that "hippie" Christians find their way on TV every day. Muslims find their way into classrooms as teachers. Foxnews will put just about anybody on.

My point was / is that perspective can be modified. CAIR could do a lot by condemning violence in the name of Allah. Countries who are governed by Islamic law could try and present the "better" side of their belief system instead of executing rape victims. Cartoons of certain religious leaders could cease being reasons for Jihad. There is a lot that could be done to fix the widespread misunderstanfing between the two faiths.

gordon 2 · Jan 9, 2012

JB0704 said:
I am not going to get into a position where I am left defending intolerance, because that is not how I believe. I understand what gets ratings, but also know that "hippie" Christians find their way on TV every day. Muslims find their way into classrooms as teachers. Foxnews will put just about anybody on.

My point was / is that perspective can be modified. CAIR could do a lot by condemning violence in the name of Allah. Countries who are governed by Islamic law could try and present the "better" side of their belief system instead of executing rape victims. Cartoons of certain religious leaders could cease being reasons for Jihad. There is a lot that could be done to fix the widespread misunderstanfing between the two faiths.

Agree. So what are we( you and I ) going to do encourage this?

JB0704 · Jan 9, 2012

gordon 2 said:
Agree. So what are we( you and I ) going to do encourage this?

Good challenge, and I am not sure, G2.

I have sat through a lot of sermons in my life laced with rhetoric which contained veiled condemnations of other belief systems. Though teaching Jesus as "the way" is a must for those who believe as such, perhaps the church (globally) could do a better job of presenting Christianity as you and I (westerners) see it....not sure what else.

gordon 2 · Jan 9, 2012

JB0704 said:
Good challenge, and I am not sure, G2.

I have sat through a lot of sermons in my life laced with rhetoric which contained veiled condemnations of other belief systems. Though teaching Jesus as "the way" is a must for those who believe as such, perhaps the church (globally) could do a better job of presenting Christianity as you and I (westerners) see it....not sure what else.

How about asking what is this justice that you ask for? And matching it up with the justice we ask for?

But perhaps before asking the questions, we should ask God, "What is this justice you ask for?" and "Is it a part of grace or apart from it or both?"

I wonder what God would say?

StriperAddict · Jan 9, 2012

gordon 2 said:
I wonder what God would say?

Perhaps He would have us be a love influence by His grace/mercy/power,

and no longer a "cultural" influence.

Our western culture has gotten in the way of His witness many times; not just in some cultural "mistakes" WE make, but in overall perception of foreign nations.

I like what many gospel organizations are doing now... training those in far away lands to go back to their home countries and churches and be an influence for Christ without the care of another nationality marring the landscape.

I'm not saying we shouldn't enter the foreign mission field, but I'd advise caution on what provences welcome a US Christian worker and those who do not.

Make sense? Hope I didn't pull this outta track.

gordon 2 · Jan 11, 2012

StriperAddict said:
Perhaps He would have us be a love influence by His grace/mercy/power,

and no longer a "cultural" influence.

Our western culture has gotten in the way of His witness many times; not just in some cultural "mistakes" WE make, but in overall perception of foreign nations.

I like what many gospel organizations are doing now... training those in spiritual authority in far away lands to go back to their home countries and be an influence for Christ without the care of another nationality marring the landscape.

I'm not saying we shouldn't enter the foreign mission field, but I'd advise caution on what provences welcome a US Christian worker and those who do not.

Make sense? Hope I didn't pull this outta track.

One sure thing I have been taught since I was a teen is to distinguish what is merely cultural and what is purely spiritual from my church and church leaders...since in my church there are hundreds of cultures. It is an axiom of my church that cultures should have leaders and churches from within those cultures, yet knowing what I knew as a teen....

Our christian or western cultures are not always viewed as especially "christian".
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/31/world/americas/31syphilis.html?pagewanted=all

leemckinney · Jan 12, 2012

If the majority of muslims are peaceful then why are christians being persecuted in every nation where muslims are a majority? Go to any of the christian martyr sites and you can see the evidence of this.

gordon 2 · Jan 12, 2012

leemckinney said:
If the majority of muslims are peaceful then why are christians being persecuted in every nation where muslims are a majority? Go to any of the christian martyr sites and you can see the evidence of this.

I suspect for the same reasons that in the past christian denominations persecuted each other . Or for the same reasons native americans were rubbed out by christians from northern Europe. Or for the same reason christians persecuted muslims in the last bulkin war not so long ago or in the crusades. Or simply for the reason that there is a state called Maryland. perhaps? Perhaps for the reasons that European christians between 1939 and 1944 were more than a bit of a handful to jews? Perhaps because muslim are persecuted in North American as we speak?

Perhaps?

mtnwoman · Jan 12, 2012

Come quickly Lord Jesus.

leemckinney · Jan 17, 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95Kc8PEdHRE

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