Buckshot: Minimum Pattern = Maximum Effective Range

.60 caliber buckshot · Mar 2, 2014

What size bullseye would you choose to represent the vital zone of a deer?

When you pattern test your Shotgun/Choke/Buckshot combination - what is the minimum number of your favorite buckshot pellet size that would deliver a reliable quick killing pattern hitting the vital zone of a deer?

DogHunter4Life · Mar 2, 2014

this doesnt really answer your question but my browning silver 28 inch barrel with an extra full choke and 3 inch OO buck shot is my key to success.. i've killed a truck load with this combination and have never patterned it.. afraid if i did it would make me shoot different and it only takes 1 buckshot sometimes to kill one

but if i was to want to pattern a gun for dog hunting i'd use a poster board from walmart and draw about 4 rings and aim for the middle at about 40 yards and then try several different chokes and buck shots to get it how you want it.

make sure you get several poster boards and do your rings on the different poster boards the same so that you can compare them

good luck

grouper throat · Mar 3, 2014

I like about 15 #4s in an area slightly bigger than a regular plate. If those don't get it then he isn't going far with all those #4s hitting around his legs anyways. The one I killed last year with buckshot had 3 broken legs plus the vitals were ripped up.

GunnSmokeer · Mar 3, 2014

00 buck at 25 yards

I'd use 00 buckshot. 9-pellets each .33" diameter and about 60 grains. Muzzle velocity about 1300 f.p.s.

I expect a group of about 15" at 25 yards from a long-barreled shotgun with some kind of choke.

Even from a 20" barreled cylinder-bore riot shotgun, I'd still expect good buckshot to keep all the pellets to pattern within about 18" or 20"

I normally consider the deer's vitals about 8" diameter. If I can consistently ring an 8" steel plate or knock over a coffee can at a certain distance with a certain gun and load, I say it's good enough for deer hunting from that distance.

So if I'm shooting 25 yards and getting a 15" - 20" pattern, obviously not ALL my pellets will hit in an 8" kill zone. That's OK with me. A few of them will be in there. Others will hit lungs, diaphram, neck, maybe spine, etc. Plenty of opportunity for the "other pellets" (the ones that didn't stay in the 8" kill zone) to contribute to dropping the animal.

P.S. Per this guy's test of a 12-gauge 00 buckshot load at 21 feet, those .33 lead balls tend to penetrate about 12" to 15" deep into ballistic gelatin. That's pretty good penetration, even if they don't expand much and don't create huge messy wound channels with wide cavitation.

Video removed by moderation

.60 caliber buckshot · Mar 3, 2014

DogHunter4Life said:
this doesnt really answer your question but my browning silver 28 inch barrel with an extra full choke and 3 inch OO buck shot is my key to success.. i've killed a truck load with this combination and have never patterned it.. afraid if i did it would make me shoot different and it only takes 1 buckshot sometimes to kill one

So you fear that if you knew how your gun patterned that you might not take some of the shots you have?

.60 caliber buckshot · Mar 3, 2014

GunnSmokeer said:
I'd use 00 buckshot. 9-pellets each .33" diameter and about 60 grains. Muzzle velocity about 1300 f.p.s.

I expect a group of about 15" at 25 yards from a long-barreled shotgun with some kind of choke.

Even from a 20" barreled cylinder-bore riot shotgun, I'd still expect good buckshot to keep all the pellets to pattern within about 18" or 20"

I normally consider the deer's vitals about 8" diameter. If I can consistently ring an 8" steel plate or knock over a coffee can at a certain distance with a certain gun and load, I say it's good enough for deer hunting from that distance.

So if I'm shooting 25 yards and getting a 15" - 20" pattern, obviously not ALL my pellets will hit in an 8" kill zone. That's OK with me. A few of them will be in there. Others will hit lungs, diaphram, neck, maybe spine, etc. Plenty of opportunity for the "other pellets" (the ones that didn't stay in the 8" kill zone) to contribute to dropping the animal.

P.S. Per this guy's test of a 12-gauge 00 buckshot load at 21 feet, those .33 lead balls tend to penetrate about 12" to 15" deep into ballistic gelatin. That's pretty good penetration, even if they don't expand much and don't create huge messy wound channels with wide cavitation.

video removed by moderation

Are you saying the maximum range you will shoot with a 9 pellet 00B load is 25 yards with a 20" pattern?

.60 caliber buckshot · Mar 3, 2014

grouper throat said:
I like about 15 #4s in an area slightly bigger than a regular plate. If those don't get it then he isn't going far with all those #4s hitting around his legs anyways. The one I killed last year with buckshot had 3 broken legs plus the vitals were ripped up.

So with #4B the minimum pattern, to establish the maximum range you will shoot, is 15 pellets in roughly a 10 to 12 inch circle?

How far then is your maximum range with what choke and what #4B load?

GunnSmokeer · Mar 4, 2014

.60 caliber buckshot said:
Are you saying the maximum range you will shoot with a 9 pellet 00B load is 25 yards with a 20" pattern?

Correct. I would test the gun and the ammo prior to going hunting deer, but the distance that more than 2 out of 9 pellets would stray outside of a 20" circle, that would be too far. I want most 00 buck pellets to hit a 5 gallon bucket, but I can live with a couple stray fliers.

EDITED TO CLARIFY: I think I could probably go 35 yards, since my goal would be only to get 7 out of 9 pellets in a 20" circle.
I just Googled for range reports from other people who patterned their shotguns with 00 Buck, and may people are getting 12" patterns at 25 yards. That's better than I expected. Of course the gun matters, the choke matters, and the ammo matters. One guy reported one brand of ammo giving 15" patterns while another gave 30" patterns from the SAME GUN at the SAME DISTANCE.

.60 caliber buckshot · Mar 4, 2014

Twenty inches seems like an overly large vital zone area to base a minimum effective pattern on. Wouldn't setting a minimum number of hits in the 10" pattern core be a better approach?

It seems to me that a shotgun that could not place 100% of a 9 pellet 00B pattern in 10" at twenty five yards, would not deliver an effective pattern at 40 yards.

DogHunter4Life · Mar 5, 2014

.60 caliber buckshot said:
So you fear that if you knew how your gun patterned that you might not take some of the shots you have?

No not at all .60. Let's say after 5 years with this shotgun I've killed 75% of the deer I've shot at (which I think is about right). Now all honesty most of the time that I think back on my kills I don't remember where I aimed or if I had one eye closed. I just know I've done it so long its habit to point and shoot in general direction (its more complicated than I make it sound, and safer). Let's say I pattern my gun and take my time and put the bead right on the bullseye and it shoots a foot low, then next time I have time to shoot my mind will make that foot accommodation and I may miss every time.

This may not make sense but maybe it does. Once you get use to a gun and a choke and a shell it don't matter what the pattern looks like, because the style you shoot it may be perfect

.60 caliber buckshot · Mar 6, 2014

DogHunter4Life:

I can certainly understand how you might feel that way about patterning.

However, using your example: What if the gun that, unknown to you, threw the pattern a foot low also produced a "doughnut" pattern as well. Then your reluctance to pattern could very well be the reason for the 25% missed or wounded/unrecovered deer you shot at.

DogHunter4Life said:
No not at all .60. Let's say after 5 years with this shotgun I've killed 75% of the deer I've shot at (which I think is about right). Now all honesty most of the time that I think back on my kills I don't remember where I aimed or if I had one eye closed. I just know I've done it so long its habit to point and shoot in general direction (its more complicated than I make it sound, and safer). Let's say I pattern my gun and take my time and put the bead right on the bullseye and it shoots a foot low, then next time I have time to shoot my mind will make that foot accommodation and I may miss every time.

This may not make sense but maybe it does. Once you get use to a gun and a choke and a shell it don't matter what the pattern looks like, because the style you shoot it may be perfect

Headsortails · Mar 6, 2014

Are you saying that 25 % of deer shot at are missed or unrecovered?

DogHunter4Life · Mar 6, 2014

true .60.. i'd hate to kill everything i shot at..haha kidding

headsortails... both.. i'm sure ive wounded a few over the years and i'm sure i've just flat out missed some over the years..i've flat out missed one before at 6 steps..the wadding went farther than the deer was..it happens i reckon!

grouper throat · Mar 7, 2014

I do not worry about my shotgun pattern much because if I can see over 30-40 yds I have a rifle in my hand. Half the guys I run dogs with don't even carry shotguns.

LittleDrummerBoy · Mar 7, 2014

Focus on pattern can neglect the importance of penetration. Regardless of pattern, pellets need to penetrate at least 10" to do their job. 00 buck and 25 yards. Sure, if a pellet clips the spine, deer can be dropped further, but the odds favor long tracking jobs and iffy recoveries that come down to the skills of the dogs, the lay of the land, and the size of the property (or the willingness of the hunter to trespass in pursuit of his wounded deer). If you can track legally for a mile or two you have more leeway than if the property line is 1/4 mile away.

.60 caliber buckshot · Mar 7, 2014

With conventional small buckshot*, (1, 00, 000), penetration without a concentrated core pattern is a recipe for wounded and lost game. Which is why I find the "pattern does not matter" attitude of many buckshot users to be appalling.

That most factory buckshot is formed from soft lead does not help pattern or penetration.

*Largest commercial lead buckshot load, (Dixie Triball), uses hard cast .60"/ 320 grain pellets.

GunnSmokeer · Mar 7, 2014

two hits

HYPOTHETICAL: so are you saying that if your shotgun and that particular ammo throws a wide pattern, but evenly distributed (no "doughnut hole") and you shoot from a distance where you get 2 or 3 buckshot pellets (let's say size 00- there's a lot of data and real-world feedback on how they penetrate in meat) in the eight-inch kill zone, and the other 7 or 10 pellets hitting everything from the neck to the flank, shoulders to elbows...

... that would be unacceptable? Since only 2 out of 9 (or 3 out of 12, or 3 out of 15) buckshot pellets in the right spot can't be counted on to do the job?

You'd want "most" of your pellet payload to impact within that 8" kill spot around your aiming point? (I agree that would be nice, but for most shotguns that would mean really close-range work).

.60 caliber buckshot · Mar 7, 2014

Gunsmokeer:

Perhaps I should clarify my statement thus:

With conventional small buckshot, (1, 00, 000), penetration without a concentrated core pattern is a recipe for wounded and lost game at all but extremely short range. Which is why I find the "pattern does not matter" attitude of many buckshot users to be appalling.

For years the talk of dog deer hunting camps has been tight buckshot patterns. In light of the improvements made in factory buckshot ammo and chokes in the last four decades, it is hard to believe that hunters today would settle for just 20-25 yard effectiveness. It is equally hard to believe hunters would not want to establish a what the actual maximum effective range of their deer gun is by taking the time to seriously pattern it. It seems to me that pattern testing a buckshot gun is the shotgun equivalent of sighting in a rifle!

DogHunter4Life · Mar 7, 2014

heres why i think a "pattern" does not really matter

how many true dog hunters out there get those nice and stopped poses at 20 or 30 steps?? not many.. so why would you pattern a gun when almost none of your shots are like they are when you are patterning your gun?? everything comes into effect...wind, rain, humidity, deer speed, top of box shooting downward or shooting on a level, bushes or trees in the way, full out sprint or trotting, and 10,000 more conditions....

my point is that to me it is more important how that particular person feels and shoots with his gun in the field than just saying i put 9 of 12 shot in a pie plate at 40 yards... just my 2 cents!!

another thing that annoys me (i'm sure i'll get bashed on this one too) is all these folks wanting to take clean ethical shots dog hunting.. geez folks.. maybe 10% of all dog hunting shots are ethical.. i know nobody wants to wound a deer but if you wait on complete ethical shots, you may not ever shoot!!

Slugg · Mar 8, 2014

The good and the bad of a shotgun is that multiple projectile aspect. I work medical, I've seen a guy shot in the face less than 15ft with #6 and only ending up blind, while another man was shot at from roughly 75-100yds and died from one pellet going in under his armpit and hitting his aorta. It was 8 pellets of buckshot and only 3 or 4 hit the house he was standing in the doorway of.

To answer your question, I shoot 8 pellet hornady critical for deer, it patterns best for my 26" full choke. I go with the furthest I can keep 4 out of 8 pellets in 12". You can find all over the internet how 00 buckshot has enough penetration. At the distances your worrying about not penetrating enough, your probably not going to be grouping well enough to responsibly take the shot. If i were shooting triball .6 pellets I'd want 2/3 hitting within 12" Even though, if you think about it, a ton of deer have been dropped with lighter projectiles for years.

Buckshot: Minimum Pattern = Maximum Effective Range

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