Advice on employee recruitment and pay

Possum · May 22, 2018

steeleagle said:
I've been reading this thread, and I've been in sales my entire career. The quote above is a symptom of a huge problem.......If it was not hard to do.....everyone would be doing it......Heck, show your existing people how it's done. Make some cold calls yourself and prove it. From what I can see, you have a trust issue......

I have, and my employees know it can be done. I provided leads to my employees somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 million dollars last year, of which they closed about 10%.
If I wanted to pay myself the 30% commission I pay them, well you can do the math.

My closing rate is better than my employees but obviously I can not personally go out on 2,000-3,000 leads a year. I am busy doing the other things owners need to do.

There are plenty of chimney service techs in our industry that make over $100,000. We’ve seen their numbers and I know the owners of these other companies. Those companies are no different than ours.

So you may not believe it but my employees do. They just aren’t salespeople and will not do what it takes to do those kind of numbers. The opportunity is there though. Believe it or not

Possum · May 22, 2018

Explain what you mean by “trust issue”
I’m not seeking advice on how to improve my employees sales numbers. If they all doubled their closing rate it wouldn’t do us any good because we couldn’t do the work for being booked out so far.
I have 0 problem with retention. People stay here for the most part with the exception of just a few over the years and even the ones that left tell me they miss this place.
And so far over last 15 years I think only one or two people were offered a job here and didn’t take it.
My ONLY problem is getting good people to apply. That was the advice I was seeking.

NOYDB · May 22, 2018

Possum said:
My ONLY problem is getting good people to apply. That was the advice I was seeking.

You might want avoid mentioning any commissions in the ad. Major sweat shops apply that tactic to avoid paying total wages to workers. Go to the cell phone shop and if you pressure sell the product, they offer commissions. When they place ads they say how much you "could" make with sales. You don't intend it but your ad copy screams you can't make much here, unless you are pushing sales. The well has been poisoned by those trying to get those new employees.

Possum · May 22, 2018

NOYDB said:
You might want avoid mentioning any commissions in the ad. Major sweat shops apply that tactic to avoid paying total wages to workers. Go to the cell phone shop and if you pressure sell the product, they offer commissions. When they place ads they say how much you "could" make with sales. You don't intend it but your ad copy screams you can't make much here, unless you are pushing sales. The well has been poisoned by those trying to get those new employees.

Good point. I thought about leaving out the sales bonus/commission mention in ad but I was hoping that someone who wanted make more than just an hourly pay would be attracted to that.
I really don’t want labor workers here. Someone who isn’t willing to learn to sell is not going to get a job offer. But It’s not a requirement to be good at sales. If it was I wouldnt have any employees. I just want someone willing to try.

steeleagle · May 22, 2018

Possum said:
Explain what you mean by “trust issue”

My ONLY problem is getting good people to apply. That was the advice I was seeking.

1. Location.
2. Everyone has been through a "shady" interview process (Not saying anything bad about you). When someone sees such a large gap between what is earned ($12 per hour) vs "What could be", they become cautious.

Miguel Cervantes · May 22, 2018

steeleagle said:
1. Location.
2. Everyone has been through a "shady" interview process (Not saying anything bad about you). When someone sees such a large gap between what is earned ($12 per hour) vs "What could be", they become cautious.

Plus in my experience over the last 46 years in the work force and the last 30 owning my own, there are Sales people and there are laborers and both have special skills that rarely mix.

Incentivize the salary on the hourly employees not mandating or really even pushing sales and hire a couple of commission only sales people. If the sales people are worth their salt they'll earn a healthy living.

Once an employee knows how to sell, install and service your product, they no longer need you.

Possum · May 23, 2018

Here is another example of the sales numbers I was talking about. We are about to submit a $100,000 + proposal to replace all the fireplaces in a condominium complex. It’s a promising proposal. If closed, it could have been a $30,000+ commission if an employee of mine had called on them instead of me.
My employees prefer that I provide them the leads and they get the 5% bonus for closing the sale. But they missed out on half a year’s income by not making that one phone call.

Possum · May 23, 2018

To anyone here on woody’s who feels stuck in a job they don’t love, or finishing school or even dropped out... there is a very bright future for you if you will consider working here at my company.
My employees love their jobs, they make a good living, own their homes and support their families.
It’s not for everyone, but either is working in a factory or sitting at a desk.
A friend of mine Mark Stoner owns a chimney sweep company in Nashville TN. He has been on the television show Blue Collar Millionaires and wrote a book titled Blue Collar Gold. In his book he explains how there IS wealth that can be made by learning a trade.
I hope you will message me today and let me show you that I can help you achieve whatever dreams you have that you thought were not possible with your current job.

JustUs4All · May 23, 2018

We bout need to move this over to the Employee wanted area.

steeleagle · May 24, 2018

Possum said:
I don’t have any education requirement. Where do you see that?

I did edit the job posting though. Here’s what it says now...

Southern Chimney Sweep in Clarkesville Ga currently has two full time-year round positions open. $14-$20 per hour plus sales bonuses. No experience needed. Paid training and Paid vacations.

This is not a general labor job. We do MUCH more than just Sweep chimneys. We build chimneys, tear down chimneys, repair and install fireplaces, wood stoves and gas logs. Great sales opportunities with excellent bonuses. Seeking individuals looking to learn a trade and make a long term career with our organization. Highly motivated and competent employees advance to higher levels of leadership with great pay and job perks.

Applicants are asked to send a well written resume before calling and asking details of job. We hope you want to become a part of our amazing team! If you are a great people person, a hard worker and want to grow with this company, you will do very well and will love this job!

Today's labor market is tight, and employers are having a hard time adjusting. With that said, I'm not sure I understand why you would ask someone to send a resume before giving them details of the job. If it was me, I would skip any job posting that asked for a resume before I could get job details. Have you though about adding details to the job description?

Miguel Cervantes · May 24, 2018

steeleagle said:
Today's labor market is tight, and employers are having a hard time adjusting. With that said, I'm not sure I understand why you would ask someone to send a resume before giving them details of the job. If it was me, I would skip any job posting that asked for a resume before I could get job details. Have you though about adding details to the job description?

During the downturn many employers, at the advice of MBA Consultants, move to multi-faceted job responsibilities within a set pay scale. (more work for the same pay) That created a large amount of stress and anxiety in the workers, but the economy was abysmal and they had to do it so they stuck with it. Now that the economy is in full swing recovery mode and the job market has freed up employers are learning, especially with the Millennial generation, that they have to once again extract job responsibilities into individual positions within their company. This means increase pay for less responsibility. The companies that are not keeping up with this trend are not winning the employees.

The other employee facet that is being realized IS the Millennial phenomenon and the fact that they are not loyal and barely trustworthy and you'll get 18 and maybe 24 months of employment out of them and then they are gone to the next greener pasture. Companies as large as Delta Airlines are realizing this and are moving to favor hiring employees in their early 40's to early 50's because of their propensity to be loyal employees with longevity in a position.

The employer landscape has changed. You can't staff your company based on 30 year old standards anymore.

steeleagle · May 24, 2018

Miguel Cervantes said:
The employer landscape has changed. You can't staff your company based on 30 year old standards anymore.

Truer words have never been spoken.

Duff · May 24, 2018

Possum,

If it were me, I'd be hitting up the Hab, White, Stevens Co,, CTAE teachers to sit down with the students in their classes (although school is out now). The welding, ag, construction students seem to be the ones you would want to target. I've worked high school kids/graduates the last few summers and those are the ones with the work ethic 90% of the time. Since school is out, maybe try to contact the teachers and ask if they know any of their senior students looking for work.

As other said though, those guys are in high demand. Last year Kubota had help wanted signs everywhere at White Co's graduation. Some of the kids out of high school welding classes are starting out 14+ per hour. My suggestion would be to get to them before the larger companies do.

I think the $2 per hour increase will definitely help land a new employee.

I still need my chimney cleaned and possibly a new cap, but don't take that pay increase out on me. :bounce:

I'll be in touch

Good luck

Possum · May 24, 2018

steeleagle said:
Today's labor market is tight, and employers are having a hard time adjusting. With that said, I'm not sure I understand why you would ask someone to send a resume before giving them details of the job. If it was me, I would skip any job posting that asked for a resume before I could get job details. Have you though about adding details to the job description?

The details are in the description. When I say don’t call before sending resume it’s because we used to get a bunch of People that call office and ask our office staff a bunch of questions. Like do we work on Saturdays, do we work past 5, etc. my office staff is too busy to deal with these people. I want a resume first and I will call them to set up an interview. Many people tell me they don’t have a resume. If they don’t, they aren’t considered. If a person is too lazy to take 30 min and draft a resume, they are lazy and we don’t need to waste time with them.

Possum · May 24, 2018

Had two great interviews today and I’m likely going to offer them both jobs after I interview two more applicants tomorrow.

Duff, thanks and call soon, we are talking about going up on prices drastically in about a month if we are not caught up by then.

steeleagle · May 24, 2018

Possum said:
The details are in the description. When I say don’t call before sending resume it’s because we used to get a bunch of People that call office and ask our office staff a bunch of questions. Like do we work on Saturdays, do we work past 5, etc. my office staff is too busy to deal with these people. I want a resume first and I will call them to set up an interview. Many people tell me they don’t have a resume. If they don’t, they aren’t considered. If a person is too lazy to take 30 min and draft a resume, they are lazy and we don’t need to waste time with them.

My bad. BTW, i think it is quite awesome that you built your own business and are looking to expand.

Miguel Cervantes · May 24, 2018

Possum said:
If a person is too lazy to take 30 min and draft a resume, they are lazy and we don’t need to waste time with them.

If one is a trades person, or only had labor type jobs then they never had to have a resume and most likely were never taught to create one. In my 30 years experience being self employed 99.9% of Resume's are 75% smoke and mirrors and 25% truth at the labor level.

I think you are doing yourself and your company a gross injustice by not considering those without a resume and even requiring one up front at the pay scale you are starting at.

Your attitude and actions towards the job market tells them a lot about your company that you may not see, whether it is true or not. Employment is a two way street now days.

Possum · May 24, 2018

Miguel Cervantes said:
If one is a trades person, or only had labor type jobs then they never had to have a resume and most likely were never taught to create one. In my 30 years experience being self employed 99.9% of Resume's are 75% smoke and mirrors and 25% truth at the labor level.

I think you are doing yourself and your company a gross injustice by not considering those without a resume and even requiring one up front at the pay scale you are starting at.

Your attitude and actions towards the job market tells them a lot about your company that you may not see, whether it is true or not. Employment is a two way street now days.

Nope, sorry but like I said, not looking for laborers and if a man cannot make himself a resume he is either lazy, stupid or hiding his bad work history.
I won’t consider anyone who will not make a resume, even if it only references, volunteer work and education info on it.
I’ll let someone else hire and deal with the lazy people.

Miguel Cervantes · May 24, 2018

Possum said:
I advertise starting pay here as $12 an hour and up.

You advertise starting pay at $12 an hour but demand a Resume.

The GAP clothing store starts teenagers with absolutely zero experience and NO resume at $10 an hour and it goes up from there with time in job, for basically operating a cash register and folding cloths.

If you still think what myself and Steeleagle have told you are not relevant to your way of doing things then all I have left is to wish you luck. You're gonna need it.

NOYDB · May 24, 2018

Good luck and best wishes!

The employment world is constantly changing.

Advice on employee recruitment and pay

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