What was Israel to the Jews before Christianity?

gordon 2

Senior Member
Yes, so what was Israel to the Jews before Christianity?
Would they agree with today's view by some Christians that Israel is a state? What does scripture say on who and what Israel was for the ancients? What did God cause to be regards the individuals within Israel in those days ? Is Luke 1 47-50 or Mary's point of view a faithful view or truth as to what spiritual Jews knew Israel to be before Jesus incarnate?

Here have a read:

47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

50 And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.

51 He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.

52 He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.

53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.

54 He hath helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;

55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

This servant Israel which Mary speaks to us about here, is it the same one which many Christians would have as today's state Israel? Is Mary's testimony of Israel, in her testimony of God active in her life and lifetime and in the history she knew, faithful to the truth of what Israel is?
 

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
54 He hath helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;

Servant indeed. I would think they believe Israel is God's firstborn nation.
 

gordon 2

Senior Member
Michah 5

2But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

3Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.
 

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
Michah 5

2But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

3Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.

Aligns perfectly with Romans 11.

I've often wondered "why Israel?"
Why not Tyre, Sidon, Arwad, Berytus, Byblos or Carthage?
 

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
What's weird to me is that God chose Israel(for whatever reason) and many just pass it off as "oh well." His love was for the whole world. Like he just randomly chose a nation to deliver his Son through.
Does God randomly elect any nation or individual? God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy. In choosing Israel we must look at how God chooses individuals as well. We do not understand this mystery about the Potter.
One of the strangest things about God yet I love it. I'm thankful for it. I don't know why or how but it's far from random.

For whatever reason, God chose Israel. Chose them as a firstborn nation. Chose them to reveal his firstborn Son. His only Son. God chose Israel.

Many parallels, mirrors, shadows and types within God's Word, story, mind, heart, creation, etc. for his purpose.

No matter how hard or deep we delve, there is a lot of mystery within God's ways. Yet we still yearn to learn. Even Jesus talked in a sort of mysterious riddle sort of way. It makes learning interesting. The more we know, the more we don't know.

Back to Israel, the firstborn nation. He could have just presented Christianity to the world without any Jewish roots or origins. He could have made Adam, Noah, Seth, Abraham, on and on to David without any ancestry. Without any lineage. No nation, no history, no Creation.

Just Jesus as a Messiah for the whole world from the get go. The beginnings could have been in South America or in a no named location. A no named nation. A no named firstborn nation. Maybe a South Pacific Island.

Who really knows why he chose Israel. Who knows why he chose us as individuals? Regardless he did and we must live with it. Like it or not God chose Israel. Like it or not Jesus was born a Jew. Like it or not he chooses us.

Jesus could have easily been born Black, Chinese, Female, Eskimo, White, crippled, blind, or God forbid, a liberal Yankee.
But he wasn't, he was born a Jew so we are stuck with it. Our Messiah, or Redeemer, The Son of God was just a Jew boy. Born an only Son, a firstborn.

Maybe God figured most folks didn't take to kindly to Jews so he had Jesus born into their nation knowing he'd blind them so they'd kill his Son. That way there wouldn't be any hard feelings. Make the king a Jew.
Ya'll killed the world's Savior therefor ya'll will get what ya'll deserve.

Funny but God don't work that way. God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy. If he chose Israel to be blinded so that salvation would come to the world, then he also chose Israel to be his firstborn nation.

Re-read Romans 11. Paul was an amazing apostle. I once thought he was false. Now he is my favorite.
 

gordon 2

Senior Member
In many ways Israel is a type for the world ( fallen) complete with sin and yet of heroic faith. A world full of Divine promise and Divine grace and yet where man is often doomed by his own seductions due to a corrupt will ( with a boom and bust spiritual reality and existence).

Personally, perhaps in my too simplistic way, I see Israel ( a minority group) coming out of the great-vast Egyptian civilization, an Israel that our God today will groom from remnant to remnant until His only begotten son becomes the new Adam.

Egyptian civilization ( empire) will have an end, their Gods and man's strife over them and their famous demi-god Pharoahs will end--- but Israel is still with us ( spiritual Israel), and it is this Israel's God we love today... though many empires and many gods have tested us to go out of the line of remnants.

We have one King and one Kingdom to use the terms of the ancients-- the same that was in the very beginning and will be forever. We are the heirs of His favor to Israel and to the world and our life model is Jesus and His apostles.
 
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