Are Catholics Born Again?

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I understand you post and not to be argumentative but what about the other verses that pretty much say the same thing and support regenerative baptism?
 

rjcruiser

Senior Member
I understand you post and not to be argumentative but what about the other verses that pretty much say the same thing and support regenerative baptism?

Hmmm...this could be the start of another thread....do you have to be baptized to be saved?

Of course not. I'll make a one post hi-jack.


Now to the original question. Catholicism is a dangerous religion where works are mis-construed as saving faith. If someone is a catholic and believes that they are saved solely on the basis of Christ's death and resurection, then yes, a Catholic is truely saved/born again. If they believe that their good works are going to get them to Heaven, no they are not truely saved/born again.
 

dawg2

AWOL ADMINISTRATOR

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Hmmm...this could be the start of another thread....do you have to be baptized to be saved?

Of course not. I'll make a one post hi-jack.


Now to the original question. Catholicism is a dangerous religion where works are mis-construed as saving faith. If someone is a catholic and believes that they are saved solely on the basis of Christ's death and resurection, then yes, a Catholic is truely saved/born again. If they believe that their good works are going to get them to Heaven, no they are not truely saved/born again.

Not sure about what you just posted. I study Scripture quite a bit and I cannot see where your statement holds water. There are numerous verses in the bible which support regenerative baptism. There are also verses in Scripture that support works, as well. I am not at home right now but I have notes and will post chapter and verse to support this.

Also, calling Catholicism a "dangerous religion" is dangerous thinking. ALL religions have dangerous sides.

DW
 

rjcruiser

Senior Member
Also, calling Catholicism a "dangerous religion" is dangerous thinking. ALL religions have dangerous sides.

DW

I would agree with you...all religions have a dangerous side.

I'll start a new thread in regards to baptism so that we don't hijack or derail this one too much.
 

farmasis

Senior Member
I understand you post and not to be argumentative but what about the other verses that pretty much say the same thing and support regenerative baptism?

I am unaware of any. I do know many that tell us how to be saved and do not mention water.
 

farmasis

Senior Member
Not sure about what you just posted. I study Scripture quite a bit and I cannot see where your statement holds water. There are numerous verses in the bible which support regenerative baptism. There are also verses in Scripture that support works, as well. I am not at home right now but I have notes and will post chapter and verse to support this.

Also, calling Catholicism a "dangerous religion" is dangerous thinking. ALL religions have dangerous sides.

DW

verses that support works for salvation?

Would like to examine those. Probably includes the one about Abraham being justified through works which is easily interpeted if you take it in context.
 

rjcruiser

Senior Member
There are also verses in Scripture that support works, as well. DW

I agree...faith without works is dead, but works does not bring about salvation. Catholicism teaches that good works gets you to heaven. This is not the case. Our good works are as filthy wrags to God.
 

rjcruiser

Senior Member
:offtopic:
i was following along, ever so slowly until someone started disparaging some of my snake-handling friends. :bounce:

seriously, i use to think it was easy to understand the Muslims, divided into the various camps inside the gates. the Shias, the Sunni's and a few other non-descript types.

Now, we look around, and find that we folks over in the western hemisphere can't agree about the basics of Christianity. what comes to my consciousness is that crossing the big water to the Western World causes lots of differences in interpretations. :huh:
:bounce:


Yeah..the only difference is that we don't go around wearing vests that are strapped with TNT killing off eachother in hopes of having 72 virgins up in paradise.:banginghe:banginghe:banginghe
 

farmasis

Senior Member
I agree...faith without works is dead, but works does not bring about salvation.

Agree, but when you examine that in context (faith without works is dead), it is clear to me that James is talking to other believers about how to be justified in the eyes of other MEN not God! He is talking to believers about how to live a Christian life. he even mentions in verse 23 that Abraham was justified to God simply by belief.

Agree works will not bring about salvation.
 

dawg2

AWOL ADMINISTRATOR
:offtopic:
i was following along, ever so slowly until someone started disparaging some of my snake-handling friends. :bounce:

seriously, i use to think it was easy to understand the Muslims, divided into the various camps inside the gates. the Shias, the Sunni's and a few other non-descript types.

Now, we look around, and find that we folks over in the western hemisphere can't agree about the basics of Christianity. what comes to my consciousness is that crossing the big water to the Western World causes lots of differences in interpretations. :huh:
:bounce:


Interesting the rifts in Islam....mirror Christianity..... Judaism.... etc.....etc......etc....
 

dawg2

AWOL ADMINISTRATOR
:offtopic:
i was following along, ever so slowly until someone started disparaging some of my snake-handling friends. :bounce:
:offtopic:
It was not disparaging, just clarifying what is dangerous and what is not:bounce:
 

dawg2

AWOL ADMINISTRATOR
walking on this earth is pretty near fatal to everyone who has ever tried or attempted it. so something "out there" is pretty much fatal to nearly all of us, wouldn't you agree? :type: that is to say, Jesus, Son of God, did go on, but he was kilt first, was he not? :huh:

Yes, it is always terminal eventually...
 
P

PJason

Guest
bmpique,

I am sorry that you have only been on the board for six days and two out of eight of your post have done nothing but vomit self hating lies from a former Catholic.

Replies at this point would be meaningless the hate you have in your heart is gushing at this point and has blackened your blood.


I and all the other Catholics on the board will pray for you. Pray that you turn from your hate and turn back to God.

I will pray for return home.

Domine Iesu, dimitte nobis debita nostra, salva nos ab igne inferiori, perduc in caelum omnes animas, praesertim eas, quae misericordiae tuae maxime indigent.
 
P

PJason

Guest
I am sorry but the Truth is painful for those who are not in the Truth. By your "stupid' comment it's clear that either you are catholic or ignorant of the Bible and the history books... Am i "stupid" b/c i am familiar with the history books, catechism and the Bible? I will gladly provide you some proof of my "stupidity"... All of the info that i provide is NOT from me but history books, catechism and the Scriptures... I am just a sinful man with a zeal for the Truth in Jesus and doing the Will of the Lord. Being a sinner, I deserve eternity away from God but b/c of the Grace of the Lord, I may now spend eternity with Him in Heaven...

Here is a comparison between the catholic catechism and the Bible...

CANON 9: "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema."
"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin," (Rom. 3:20).
"Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus," (Rom. 3:24).
"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law," (Rom. 3:28).
"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness," (Rom. 4:3).
"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," (Rom. 5:1).
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God," (Eph. 2:8).
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost," (Titus 3:5).
CANON 12: "If any one shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified ... let him be accursed"
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name," (John 1:12).
"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law," (Rom. 3:28).
'For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness," (Rom. 4:3).
"Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the peoples: for this he did once, when he offered up himself," (Heb. 7:25-27).
"For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day," (2 Tim. 1:12).
Canon 14: "If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema."
"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness," (Rom. 4:3).
"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," (Rom. 5:1).
Canon 23: "lf any one saith, that a man once justified can sin no more, nor lose grace, and that therefore he that falls and sins was never truly justified; or, on the other hand, that he is able, during his whole life, to avoid all sins, even those that are venial,- except by a special privilege from God, as the Church holds in regard of the Blessed Virgin; let him be anathema."
"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him," (John 3:36).
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day," (John 6:40).
"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand," (John 10:28).
"That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord," (Rom. 5:21).
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us," (1 John 2:19).
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God," (1 John 5:13).
Canon 24: "If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema."
"O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" (Gal. 3:1-3).
"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law," (Gal. 5:1-3).
Canon 30: "If any one saith, that, after the grace of Justification has been received, to every penitent sinner the guilt is remitted, and the debt of eternal punishment is blotted out in such wise, that there remains not any debt of temporal punishment to be discharged either in this world, or in the next in Purgatory, before the entrance to the kingdom of heaven can be opened (to him); let him be anathema."
"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," (Rom. 5:1).
"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross," (Col. 2:13-14).
Canon 33: "If any one saith, that, by the Catholic doctrine touching Justification, by this holy Synod inset forth in this present decree, the glory of God, or the merits of our Lord Jesus Christ are in any way derogated from, and not rather that the truth of our faith, and the glory in fine of God and of Jesus Christ are rendered (more) illustrious; let him be anathema.
This council declares that if anyone disagrees with it, they are Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- to the pit...

http://www.carm.org/catholic.htm

http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/banned.htm

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/nobible.htm

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/kill.htm

http://www.born-again-christian.info/foxes.book.of.martyrs/foxes.contents.htm

http://www.bereanbeacon.org/

http://www.fbinstitute.com/papacy/index.htm

http://www.gospelway.com/religiousgroups/catholicism.php

http://www.one-fold.com/articles.htm#catholicism

http://www.whateverycatholicshouldknow.com/wecsk.htm

Everyone needs to examine themselves under the light of the Scriptures to determine if they are in the Truth. People can NOT worship God the way that they want to. We must worship God by His ways and commandments. I am sorry, but calling Mary a "co-savior" is NOT obeying the commandments of the Lord... May you seek the truth and not men...



BTW for your information being the Catechism scholar that your are, you should know that the "Canon" list above is not from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The "Canon" listed are, at least according to the website you pulled all this text from, from the Council of Trent. I would hope that if you where going to copy and paste an entire page of info from another website you would at least read the title of the page you are copying.


Here is the link

http://www.carm.org/catholic/trent.htm

And here is a link the Catechism of the Catholic Church

http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

If you would like your own copy I can provide one for you.
 

dawg2

AWOL ADMINISTRATOR
The person that tells another person the truth, is the person that loves him...

I used to be catholic. Most catholics (like i was...) rely on the infant sprinkling they had as a baby to be their "born again" experience... This is one of satan's biggest lies. Pouring water over any person will not save them or make thim Biblically "born again". Jesus himself was baptized at 30 +/- years old and He is our example. John the Baptist never mentioned baptizing infants. The concept of baptism in the Bible is clear. You must repent, put ALL of your faith in Jesus and die to self, allowing Jesus to live in you and guide you the remainder of your days. Infant baptism is EVIL and its a trick used by satan to give catholics a false since of security. It sets up that infant in the roman church putting them in the path of being a roman catholic. First its infant baptism (which is unbiblical), then its confirmation (which is unbiblical), then its the mass (which is anti-biblical, b/c Jesus was sacrificed ONCE) and on and on...

If a person does not make a TRUE repentance, turn from their sins, live for Christ, let Christ live in them, than they are NOT born again. This is not my opinion, its the opinion of God... The Bible is very clear. Most catholics think they are born again b/c they were sprinkled. This is a TERRIBLE lie and catholics need to read the Bible, especially the New Testament. If they would read their Bibles and compare it to their catechism, they would see that they are not born again in a biblical manner.

God says that if any man puts his trust in another man, than he is a fool. Catholics put their trust in their infant baptism, priests, nuns, popes, the mass, etc and not in Jesus Christ ALONE...

Proverbs says if any man justifies the wicked and condemns the just, than that man is an abomination unto the Lord... The papacy has killed more innocent people since the 4th century than ANY institution that has ever existed!!! So catholics justify the wicked (papacy who are murderers...) and condemn the just saints who were murdered making themselves an abomination to the Lord.

The Bible says Christ was to be sacrificed ONCE but yet the catholic church re-crucifies Him at every mass. Heb 6:6 says that if anyone re-sacrifices Jesus again than he is putting Christ to a public shame. The catholic catechism says clearly that the mass is a "re-sacrifice" of Jesus... So all of the participants of the mass are all putting the Lord to a public shame.

Praying to ANYONE besides the Lord is forbidden. Its called necromancy and God hates it, yet catholics do what the priests tell them to do by praying to the dead saints. God hates it, b/c we are to pray to God alone. Please read your Bibles. Quit listening blindly to men (priests, cardinals, popes, etc) and turn to the Bible and Jesus ALONE!!

Peter was never pope, it is a big lie. Since the catholic faith is founded on a lie, it cannot be from God. Peter wrote 1 Peter and 2 Peter around 65ad. He died around 67ad. The catholic church said he was supposedly pope from 34ad to 67ad at the time of his death. If this is true, that means Peter would have been pope for about 30+ years when he wrote 2 books of the Bible. Don't you think it is strange that Peter was supposedly pope for over 30 years but did not mention this AT ALL in his two books of the Bible? Seems strange to me. Peter was the evangelist for the Jews and Paul for the Gentiles. Paul was the one in Rome, not Peter. When Paul wrote his book to the church in Rome (Romans) , it was around 65ad. Again Peter according to the church has been pope for 30+ years. Paul NEVER mentioned ONE single word about Peter or Peter being a pope... isnt that strange? Don't you think Paul would have at least mentioned the beloved pope of Rome when he wrote this book to the Roman church? He did not mention Peter b/c Peter was never in Rome nor a pope....

If the Roman catholic church is SO HOLY, why did they kill 100 million innocent people, more than any other institution in the history of the world? Read the history books about the Holy Crusades and Spanish Inquisition...

According to the roman church, Mary was sinless. God says that a man and woman's body belong to each other. The wife is supposed to be submissive. The Bible is clear that husband and wife are to have sex with each other or it is a sin. If Mary was forever a virgin, then she sinned against her husband by not sleeping with him. So it's impossible for her to have been a virgin till death AND be sinless. Its another lie fabricated by the catholic church. Also, the Bible is clear, that Jesus had siblings...

The catholic catechism says that if any man puts all of their faith in Jesus as their Savior and does not need to do "works" than that person is anathema, meaning they are going to the pit... The Good News of Jesus is just the opposite. Christians who put ALL of their faith in Jesus are His sheep... Catholics wear a scapular thinking that the scapular will help them get to Heaven. God says that if any man trys to get to heaven by any other means besides Jesus, than that man is a thief and a robber.

Folks, there is nothing Biblical about roman catholicism. I am not saying they all go to the pit... That is up to God and determined by God. I have no idea who goes and who does not but i do know what the Bible says. The Bible condems buddhaism, hinduism, confucionsim, taoism, catholicism, and any other false religion. The Bible warns over and over about false Christian religions. Jesus said that God is scouring the earth looking for worshippers who will worship Him in Spirit AND IN Truth... Do catholics worship Him in Truth when they pray to Mary or dead saints, eat a "wafer" that they say IS Jesus, call their priest "holy" father (when Jesus says not to), etc etc?

All of the catholics I know, (all of my family and friends) sin all week long then go to mass thinking that the mass will remove their sins. This is NOT Christianity... this is catholicism but not Christianity... Do you want to be catholic? or Christian???

The catholic church teaches that if a catholic misses the mass, it is a mortal sin... Ok, so a devout catholic can go to mass every Sunday for 100 years, then decide to go fishing one Sunday morning, slip, fall and drown in the river but he goes to the pit b/c he did not confess his mortal sin (missing mass) before dying... THIS MAKES NO SENSE!!! This is "legalsim" and not Christianity... God hates legalism..

What people need to realize is that all religions are false. All religions (EXCEPT True Christianity) teach that you must do "works" to get to heaven, such as sell magazines door to door, go to mass, eat a wafer, pray to dead people, etc, etc... This is a big lie from satan and men. True Christianity is NOT a religion but living for Christ, in Christ and Christ in the believer...

Was Adam and Eve religious? No... Was Jesus religious? No... His biggest enemies were the religious priests and sadducees. Anyway, if anybody puts their faith in anything besides Jesus they are "likely" not saved...

The catholic church tells their people to NOT read the Bible. This is a true sign of satan. We are to eat up the Bible. Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God... God says read the Bible and men says don't read the Bible. Did you knoa the catholic church BANNED the Bible back in the early ages? They burned people at the stake for reading the Bible... This does not sound like Christianity to me...

Dear catholics, please read your Bibles... and put ALL of your faith in Jesus Christ ALONE and NOT Thomas Aquinas, Thomas More, Benedict, the mass, your local nuns or Mary...

Please use the resource of:

www.SermonAudio.com

type in some sermons on "catholicism" and be prepared to have your eyes opened to the Truth... This is the instrument God used to open my eyes... I pray to the Great Lord, that He open the eyes of as many catholics as possible...

Yes, I hate roman catholicsim, but I love the poor mislead catholics who put their in the catholic church...

Addressing you last sentence: "Hate" is quite an UN-Christian word to use. Additionally, people are "misled" not "mislead." :rolleyes:

You are quite a TROLL.

Very rarely am I able to witness such offal or manure if you like, typed on a forum, but occasionally it can be recognized by the bottle fly swarms as well as the smell...
 

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dawg2

AWOL ADMINISTRATOR
BTW for your information being the Catechism scholar that your are, you should know that the "Canon" list above is not from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The "Canon" listed are, at least according to the website you pulled all this text from, from the Council of Trent. I would hope that if you where going to copy and paste an entire page of info from another website you would at least read the title of the page you are copying.


Here is the link

http://www.carm.org/catholic/trent.htm

And here is a link the Catechism of the Catholic Church

http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

If you would like your own copy I can provide one for you.

No use in helping it (him / her) we now have a "Linwood" of the Spiritual Forum based on his posts. Another master of cut & pasting of nebulous, obscure, ill-researched sources....Like I said: A TROLL
 

Big7

The Oracle
x2:bounce: Please,Big7 - do not disturb the slumbering fire-ants!:rofl:

rangerdave - Now that you see why -can I go ahead
and get him?:bounce:

You have GOT to be kidding me.

Ignorance in it's worst form.

Stupidity should hurt so that you'd know people like the above by sight.

DW

DW - He's not kidding and to your credit, "Ignorance"
and "Stupidity" gives this "Christian" way more
than he deserves.:rofl: and that is a good :whip:

bmpique,

I am sorry that you have only been on the board for six days and two out of eight of your post have done nothing but vomit self hating lies from a former Catholic.

Replies at this point would be meaningless the hate you have in your heart is gushing at this point and has blackened your blood.


I and all the other Catholics on the board will pray for you. Pray that you turn from your hate and turn back to God.

I will pray for return home.

PJ - Here is ANOTHER classic example of one that
spews a lot of garbage about what he THINKS he
knows about Catholics - That is to say "nothing".:banginghe

I have not mentioned what denomination I am. What I WILL mention is stupidity in any shape or form. I will debate Scripture with you as much as you like, because I see truth in it.

I also would seriously doubt that you were ever a Catholic, but if you were, you were probably not from a devout Catholic home because, quite frankly, I have never seen a practicing Catholic renounce their faith any more than I have seen a devout Baptist or Pentacostal renounce their faith.

I believe that anyone who practices their faith in the fullest will rarely renounce it and even then, I have never seen that person spew forth venom when speaking of their former denomination.

Only those ignorant of Christianity as a whole would ever speak of another denomination of Christianity as you have.

I have given many years of my life so that you can say what you wish but I have also earned the right to speak out against stupidity.

DW

"Only those ignorant of Christianity as a whole would ever speak of another denomination of Christianity as you have."

DW
That pretty much sums it up and you are correct.
Again, Way to generous.

He "was" a "Catholic" about as much as I was a
"Rocket Scientist" - NOT

bmpique - I will get back to you later.
If I said now what needs to be said to you
I would be banned. AS YOU SHOULD BE! :rolleyes::crazy:
 
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