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  #26  
Old 04-13-2018, 06:08 AM
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I don't envision heaven as streets of gold, etc. That comes from a mindset of man and money. Gold will be of no value in heaven. I don't believe anything will have a monetary value in heaven. Although I expect it to be beautiful. Hard to imagine because the earth has amazingly beautiful places
I don't see "streets of gold" perhaps, in the way you seem to?

But I do agree with your

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I don't believe anything will have a monetary value in heaven.
That's the context in which I see "streets of gold".

What's highly esteemed by man...God uses for paving material...underfoot.

Perhaps we should practice walking "above" this thing (money) that seeks to make itself so large in our attentions? You know...so we feel more "at home" in this place in which we are. Less...awkward. More...graceful.
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Old 04-13-2018, 07:03 AM
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No monetary value at all, yet priceless and of infinite worth to those who are in Christ. The most amazing and wonderful things each of us have ever experienced on earth will never compare to the infinite worth of perfect love that is my heavenly Father!

I can only imagine!!!
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  #28  
Old 04-13-2018, 08:17 AM
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HEAVEN IS A CREATED PLACE (Gen. 1:1; Isa. 42:5; 45:18; Col. 1:16-18; Neh. 9:6; Ps. 102:25; Prov. 8:27).

IT IS A REAL PLANET LIKE THE EARTH (Gen. 1:1; 11:8-16). In this last passage it is called a "better country" than the Earth, Heaven, therefore, is not an invisible nothing or a cloud floating around in space where saints sit and play a Jew's harp forever.

THERE ARE THREE HEAVENS Besides the planet Earth called Heaven where God dwells (Gen. 21:17; 22:11, 15; 2 Cor. 12:1-3; Deut. 26:15; 1 Kings 8:30, 38, 43, 49) there are two other spheres called Heaven, Paul speaks of three Heavens (2 Cor. 12:1-3). The third Heaven is here called the paradise where God lives. The other two heavens are : the clouds (Gen. 1:8; 7:23; 8:2; Job 38:9, 34; Isa. 14:14; Jer. 51:16) and the starry space between the Earth and the planet Heaven (Gen. 1:15-20; 22:17; Isa. 14:12-14; Ps. 8:3).

HAEVEN IS THE CAPITAL OF THE UNIVERSE, For God has His capital city, the New Jerusalem, His capital building, the Heavenly Temple or Tabernacle, and His throne in the Temple in Heaven. This city is described by John in Rev. 21-22. This capital city will continue to be in Heaven until the end of the Millennium and then it will be moved from the planet Heaven to the planet Earth(Rev. 21:2, 9-21). Many Scriptures speak of God's throne being in Heaven (Ps. 103:19; Rev. 4:1-2). That God has a real temple in Heaven is clear from Rev. 4-5; 11:19; 14:17; 16:17.

GOD OWNS AND RULES IN THE HEAVEN OF HEAVENS (Gen. 14:19, 22; Ps. 11:4; 89:11; Luke 10:21; 11:2). He also owns the Earth and all things in the universe, but at present this planet is in rebellion against Him. This is why Jesus will be sent from Heaven with the armies of Heaven to seize this rebellious part of the universe and restore God's absolute rule on Earth as before the rebellion started (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-21; 20:1-10; Zech. 14; Jude 14; 2 Thess. 1:7-10; Joel 3; Matt. 24:29-31; 25:31-46).
Where does it call heaven a planet in the bible?
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  #29  
Old 04-13-2018, 09:00 AM
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1 Corinthians 2:9
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Adam did not experience heaven in the garden, based on this text.
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Old 04-13-2018, 10:16 AM
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1 Corinthians 2:9
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Adam did not experience heaven in the garden, based on this text.
But how does that interpret into planet heaven?

If they did not know then how would you know now?
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  #31  
Old 04-13-2018, 10:30 AM
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But how does that interpret into planet heaven?

If they did not know then how would you know now?
Ha. I wasn't addressing the "planet" question. It was in regards to what gr8bldr said earlier. Sorry for causing confusion.

BTW, I don't believe heaven is a planet.(it's infinity better than that)
Anything you can imagine, it's far greater, I assure you.
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  #32  
Old 04-13-2018, 10:52 AM
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Where does it call heaven a planet in the bible?
What about a New Heaven and New Earth, a new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride?
Is this a different place or thing than the Heaven that has streets, walls, and gates?
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  #33  
Old 04-13-2018, 11:11 AM
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What about a New Heaven and New Earth, a new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride?
Is this a different place or thing than the Heaven that has streets, walls, and gates?
I do not know, all I know for a fact is wherever it is, whatever it consist of I will join my Jesus there when his father says go get him.
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  #34  
Old 04-13-2018, 05:38 PM
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Will there be streets?
I have no idea? Will there be gravity? I have no idea.
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  #35  
Old 04-13-2018, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by welderguy View Post
1 Corinthians 2:9
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Adam did not experience heaven in the garden, based on this text.
I'm not a literal interpreter of all that is in the bible. If you are then you have a problem, because Rev has John explaining things of heaven and here we have in your verse, no eye, ear nor heart has imagined that which God has prepared
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  #36  
Old 04-13-2018, 05:45 PM
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  #37  
Old 04-13-2018, 06:47 PM
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yep. I did that several posts back
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  #38  
Old 04-13-2018, 09:17 PM
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I have no idea? Will there be gravity? I have no idea.
True but at some point we must decide if Heaven is physical or spiritual. Also in relation to this is the condition we will be when we get there, physical or spiritual.
Jesus ascended there physically.

Maybe it's somewhere in between the physical and spiritual realm. Bodies of flesh and bone walking down literal streets with fountains of water. Gardens, music, beautiful things we can't imagine. A virtual physical place maybe. Spiritual but experienced in a physical way we are familiar with. I think we'll be able to touch things, smell things, see things, and hear things in a remarkable new way. Beyond what we experience now.

Personally, I think it's physical but maybe God has abandoned all the science we need on this earth. In the new heaven and/or new earth we won't need science. No blood will be needed. Yet, we'll be in a body of flesh and bones. Just as Jesus was. Just as Jesus is.
But we won't be tied down to the restrictions of science.
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  #39  
Old 04-13-2018, 10:27 PM
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True but at some point we must decide if Heaven is physical or spiritual. Also in relation to this is the condition we will be when we get there, physical or spiritual.
Jesus ascended there physically.

Maybe it's somewhere in between the physical and spiritual realm. Bodies of flesh and bone walking down literal streets with fountains of water. Gardens, music, beautiful things we can't imagine. A virtual physical place maybe. Spiritual but experienced in a physical way we are familiar with. I think we'll be able to touch things, smell things, see things, and hear things in a remarkable new way. Beyond what we experience now.

Personally, I think it's physical but maybe God has abandoned all the science we need on this earth. In the new heaven and/or new earth we won't need science. No blood will be needed. Yet, we'll be in a body of flesh and bones. Just as Jesus was. Just as Jesus is.
But we won't be tied down to the restrictions of science.
I am expecting the garden of eden scenario
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  #40  
Old 04-14-2018, 06:57 AM
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I am expecting the garden of eden scenario

Where something can enter that "defileth" and "maketh a lie" ?

Not me.
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  #41  
Old 04-14-2018, 12:36 PM
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I am expecting the garden of eden scenario
Will there be a forbidden fruit in your heaven scenario?
Not mine.

Romans 8:32
“He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?”
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  #42  
Old 04-14-2018, 02:46 PM
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Will there be a forbidden fruit in your heaven scenario?
Not mine.

Romans 8:32
“He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?”
Wow, you grasp at everything. We know very little about Eden. What it was like, would have been like, etc. What I know of heaven was that Adam had a real relationship with God, the very reason God created man. Walked among them. This is what I think of when I think of heaven. Jesus has regained this that Adam lost. I don't think I will sweat over a heaven with a forbidden fruit or one with it removed.
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  #43  
Old 04-14-2018, 11:16 PM
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Wow, you grasp at everything. We know very little about Eden. What it was like, would have been like, etc. What I know of heaven was that Adam had a real relationship with God, the very reason God created man. Walked among them. This is what I think of when I think of heaven. Jesus has regained this that Adam lost. I don't think I will sweat over a heaven with a forbidden fruit or one with it removed.
I can see to a point what you are saying. Jesus came to restore what Adam lost. Eden is where Adam lived.
There is something there to this relation.

I would enjoy spending eternity in a restored garden but how does this appear spiritually with a restored city?

True the main part is walking with God but why is there this description of a city? It sounds more like a replacement of what Israel lost than Adam. A New Jerusalem, a restored Jerusalem.

From Eden to the New Jerusalem? I can see something. Something is there. Perhaps even working a temple into the equation. Cultivate, keep, serve, guard. Creation, covenant.
It's definitely there.

We don't know what Eden was, we don't know what the New Jerusalem will be. Spiritual? Physical?
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  #44  
Old 04-15-2018, 07:32 AM
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Restoration is a big part of God's plan through Christ. Jesus must restore what Adam destroyed. That may be be from the Garden all the way to Jerusalem.
The Garden, the world, Jerusalem. A new Garden, new world, new Jerusalem.
“a new heaven and a new earth."
"a new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven."

A new temple as well. Has the restoration started? Is it complete?
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

We do know very little of what Adam lost. Walking with God, eternal life, living in paradise?

Last edited by Artfuldodger; 04-15-2018 at 11:25 AM.
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  #45  
Old 04-15-2018, 09:51 AM
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Wow, you grasp at everything. We know very little about Eden. What it was like, would have been like, etc. What I know of heaven was that Adam had a real relationship with God, the very reason God created man. Walked among them. This is what I think of when I think of heaven. Jesus has regained this that Adam lost. I don't think I will sweat over a heaven with a forbidden fruit or one with it removed.
Yes. What you are describing is what we have NOW, through Jesus. This is only the "earnest" of our inheritance. The full inheritance is yet to come. This is what I've been trying to help you see. That you are underestimating and cheapening the full inheritance by declaring only the earnest. I hope this doesn't offend you as my only intention is to help. Bless you brother.
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  #46  
Old 04-16-2018, 11:26 AM
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“The wall of the city had twelve foundations … decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald, the fifth onyx, the sixth ruby, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth turquoise, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst” (Revelation 21:14, 19, 20 NIV).

“The angel measured the wall using human measurement, and it was 144 cubits thick. The wall was made of jasper” (Revelation 21:17, 18 NIV).
https://www.biblegateway.com/resourc...ev/Vision-City

I saw the title of this thread and I was intrigued.

I'm following this thread earnestly.
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:32 AM
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“The angel measured the wall using human measurement, and it was 144 cubits thick. The wall was made of jasper” (Revelation 21:17, 18 NIV).
Who's arm are they going to use to determine how long that 'cubit' is?
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  #48  
Old 04-16-2018, 05:48 PM
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https://www.biblegateway.com/resourc...ev/Vision-City

I saw the title of this thread and I was intrigued.

I'm following this thread earnestly.
Interesting commentary. We've had a few debates on what the bride of the Lamb is. Some say the New Jerusalem while others say the Church;

"The notion of the city as people is conspicuous both in John's first sight of the city (vv. 9-14) and in the angel's measurement (vv. 15-21)."

https://www.biblegateway.com/resourc...ev/Vision-City
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  #49  
Old 04-16-2018, 05:50 PM
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Who's arm are they going to use to determine how long that 'cubit' is?
I'm not sure, wouldn't they have a standard of human measurements? At least it shows something physical with dimensions. A new city descending from above.

This is interesting;

The angel's measurement (vv. 15-21) reveals that the city's great, high wall rises to a height of 144 cubits (about 216 feet), which is impressive enough for an ordinary city, but ridiculously small for a city 1500 miles high! Consequently the NIV renders the measurement as 144 cubits thick (see also Beckwith 1922:761). This is unlikely because (1) the first mention of the wall (v. 10) called attention to its great height, not its strength or thickness, and because (2) the wall is not built for protection or to keep people out, for its gates are always open (v. 25). Moreover, the word "thick" is not in the text, which says simply "144 cubits." The correct interpretation is "144 cubits high" (as in the NIV margin).

https://www.biblegateway.com/resourc...ev/Vision-City
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Old 04-16-2018, 07:20 PM
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I'm not sure, wouldn't they have a standard of human measurements? At least it shows something physical with dimensions. A new city descending from above.

This is interesting;

The angel's measurement (vv. 15-21) reveals that the city's great, high wall rises to a height of 144 cubits (about 216 feet), which is impressive enough for an ordinary city, but ridiculously small for a city 1500 miles high! Consequently the NIV renders the measurement as 144 cubits thick (see also Beckwith 1922:761). This is unlikely because (1) the first mention of the wall (v. 10) called attention to its great height, not its strength or thickness, and because (2) the wall is not built for protection or to keep people out, for its gates are always open (v. 25). Moreover, the word "thick" is not in the text, which says simply "144 cubits." The correct interpretation is "144 cubits high" (as in the NIV margin).

https://www.biblegateway.com/resourc...ev/Vision-City
I believe its all figurative. Abraham was looking forward to a city who's builder and maker was God. Scripture gives indication that were waiting for the full number to come in. Which could be figurative of measurements.
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